cross-posted from: https://lemmy.world/post/25133597
Come one come all to the Lemmy-verse! It’s nice and cozy here, we do have some “bad parts of town” but you can do an instance block and not deal with them lol
For your memes we have !memes@lemmy.world if you like sciency posts mander.xyz has some excellent communities (communities=subreddits) like !science@mander.xyz and !biology@mander.xyz and for a meme science combo theres always the fantastic !science_memes@mander.xyz
You can also drop a shit(post) off at !lemmyshitpost@lemmy.world or hang out at !onehundredninetysix@lemmy.blahaj.zone (though you do have to post before you leave that one!)
There’s much more around as well!
Obligatory, fuck Spez
Welcome to lemmy newbies, here is your first official feud post.
Solidarity amongst the instances! We will not be divided!
I’m not gonna be equipped to make a nuanced and detailed take right now but in my experience hexbears are alright, fun to talk to, I can learn things from them, and at worst they’re spicy.
didn’t realize that reddit actually did me a favour by giving me the boot. lemmy is way better
Days since Ive seen posts mocking tankies: 0
Is Lemmy.ml really that bad? I haven’t spent enough time on lemmy to know yet.
OMG. I just discovered Lemmy yesterday after being a Redditor for a decade. I deleted my Reddit account after the insane level of suppression I’ve endured over the past year and was all set to go cold turkey when I found out about Lemmy! Praise the sweet lil’ six pound, eight ounce baby Jesus!!
Authoritarian bootlickers is ironic, while at leats the Americans are watch their country go full authoritarian fascist right now.
If I were criticizing various nations more than the U.S., I wouldn’t shame people for “authoritarian bootlicking”. Glass houses and all that.
“Tankie Triad?” Really? This is just McCarthyian LARPing, you don’t have to constantly saber-rattle towards the Marxist-friendly instances.
In the past week I caught a 7 day ban for “misinformation” (x3, then for reposting a link to the mod logs, “skirting the rules”, “repeated offenses” etc.) from /c/WorldNews for accusing Democrats of being complicit in the ethnic cleansing of Palestinians. An actual fact - tens of billions of dollars in arms sent to an ongoing genocide/ethnic cleansing by Biden. No problems like that on lemmy.ml. That really says it all for me. Lemmy’s basically just a fediverse reddit, with the same mod structure - if mods abuse their power, and admins don’t keep them in check, it’s time to ditch the instance.
By the way, Lemmy itself was created by Dessalines, the admin of lemmy.ml. Who I collaborated with briefly on building some of the UI that you’re using right now to read this. Very thorough guy.
From what I can tell, this tankie stuff is bullshit. In the years I’ve been here, I’ve seen close to zero ‘tankie’ content from any of these supposedly tankie instances. There’s like maybe one or two people on those instances who might fit the description if you search for them. Meanwhile, literally every day there are posts spitting on these supposed tankie instances. (And actually, it’s again a very small number of people complaining - but they put their crap into cute memes to get traction).
I don’t like the idea of shouting slurs at entire instances. In my view, if you hate those instances so much - just block them. Problem solved. No need to spew hate all over lemmy.
Based
Again, despite claims to the contrary, tankie for most people means “anything left of the Democrats, or willingness to break with US foreign policy.”
No
https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Tankie
Tankie is a pejorative label generally applied to authoritarian communists, especially those who support acts of repression by such regimes, their allies, or deny the occurrence of the events thereof
“Despite claims to the contrary”, to grossly simplify Wittgenstein, a word’s meaning is how it is actually used.
I’d rather have the wild west of ideas over reddit. So I don’t mind em
When hexbear federatedn with SJW, I spent a day arguing Russia invading is bad actually, North Korea isn’t a democratic utopia, and China isn’t a shining pillar of socialism. Then I blocked them all because that was exhausting. So idk if hexbear is still so tankie, but they definitely were at that point.
I have a very different experience. When Hexbear was still federated with the large instances it was total mayhem. They would turn every thread political, constantly spam images of dictators like Stalin and Mao, and swarm anyone who disagreed. I’ve seen them deny the wrongdoings of China and the Soviet Union quite often, which is probably also what’s necessary if you spam Mao and Stalin unironically.
I’m quite left of center myself, at least relative to most people I know in real life. But these people seemed totally insane. It was probably also a numbers game, since Hexbear was relatively large at the time compared to basically every other instance. So maybe this was just an annoying minority. But nevertheless I’d never purposefully go there, and I’d recommend anyone to stay away. It’s way better than for instance a Trumpist/far-right instance, but I’d rather avoid both.
I’m quite left of center myself
lol, every time.
I’m aware that to the far left everyone who doesn’t want to abolish capitalism is considered right wing. I mean the normal (Dutch) political spectrum. Social democratic
I’m kinda far left myself, I think capitalism is a pretty cool guy
normal (white, western, neoliberal) political spectrum.
Brother you literally cannot be pro-capitalist and be left wing.
That does sound bad. If that was my experience, I guess I might actively try to avoid them too. But as it happens, I just rarely see any hexbear stuff anyway. So the fueling of cross-instance conflicts feels unnecessary and a bit icky to me.
I mean, most of the communities are on .world, and if they’re not federating with .world, they’re just not going to show up in the majority of comment sections.
But also, HB is much more of a communal space than most of the big instances, and much more aligned on how they engage with off-site content. And as the fediverse grows horizontally, a significant part of it probably going to be through focused instances, rather than more general purpose sites. We have those covered already, and most of the people interested in something like that aren’t going to leave Reddit anytime soon.
They have what they want.
This means there will be more “we don’t want to host this kind of content” discussions over time, not fewer. The fediverse will look more patchwork, not less.
Try criticizing .ml on an .ml sub and you’ll start to taste the authoritarianism
You have to remember, the people making the tankie accusations consider anyone to the left of Joe Biden a tankie.
Perhaps that’s because your instance is defederated from them? They were all over the place before most other major instances defederated from them. They are still all over the place if you’re on an instance that federates with them. I had to manually block their bullshit when I was on Yiffit. I don’t have to on Pawb or Lemmy.World.
lemm.ee federates with all three of the mentioned instances, so they are definitely seeing the posts from those instances.
I’ve seen a few. They are mostly just anti American (fair enough). They often miss the point that something being anti American doesn’t mean they are not their own empire with its own problematic takes.
Yiffit was never federated with any of them, none of them federate with porn instances.
Them not federating with another instance doesn’t stop other instances seeing their content. It only stops their instance seeing the blocked instance’s content.
If instance A isn’t federated with instance B, nobody from instance B sees instance A’s content. That is different from a block.
The tankies are pretty bad on the world politics community on ml.
The politics community on world is even more rabid and unconstructive than the Reddit equivalent
I’m jealous, I keep seeing them everywhere. As for the blocking, I’ve tried to block .ml several times but for some reason it hasn’t worked. -_-
Please see my guide posted earlier in this comment section. I hope you can block .ml soon, as it is your lemmy and you should use it how you want. Block me too, thanks.
Thanks for the guide, but I’ve already done exactly that and yet it never works for some reason.
Hexbear defederated from my instance for being authoritarian Nazis. What triggered this decision? A vote organised by the instance’s admins, to choose whether or not to defederate from the bears. You cannot make this shit up.
Oh and the vote itself was started because of them brigading us, calling us a bunch or Nazis. So, yeah.
Huh, that sounds pretty bad, let me look that up. Oh wait, it’s a total lie.
My personal opinion, for those who are interested, is that these two instances (Hexbear and Lemmygrad) are filled with what we call here nazbols, tankies, or even left-wing fascists.
“It came from the statement made in the thread that hexbear was ‘aggressively pro-trans,’ which seemed quite disgusting and fetishizing to me. This aligns with the rest of the authoritarian theme of the instance, you might say, having the perspective that one must make a superhuman effort to allow a minority to use a space.”
-jlai.lu admin’s vichy ass.
You cannot make this shit up.
Really? Seems like you can and did.
Yep. The few I see are easily ignored. Or poked if you want to set them off.
Love everything about reddit but inexplicably wish to leave it?
Hate the idea of an english speaking internet that doesn’t slavishly adhere to the party line of the US alphabet agencies?
Do you think the parable of the nazi bar is bunch of hokum?
Do you have shrieking anger towards people who refused to support genocide while having shrieking anger at (usually the same) people rejecting decades long debunked accusations of genocide made by the perpetrators of aforementioned genocide?
Join the lemmyverse! We have racism! We have homophobia! We have trans misogyny! We have daily 5 minutes hate!
And if anyone tells you different, have you considered they’re a paid shill by the notorious gay sex haver Putler??
There are some real weirdos here that have this as the major part of their personality.
I would argue FOSS is more akin to cooperative anarchism or library economics. Murray Bookchin
i agree, commies trying to claim FOSS is really a stretch, they are desperate to pretend to be relevant
Speaking of pretending to be relevant, how ancient are you that you still use the word “commies”?
do you prefer the more current term marxist-lenninist like lee oswald?
true though, isn’t it, not being relevant since roughly… 89?
Least incoherent reactionary
This seems like an odd message considering that Lemmy, as software, is being praised here; and what is being criticized are instances wherein the admins enforce apologism for authoritarian regimes.
If someone writes a program you like, it means they’ve got good political ideas. /s
Tankies aren’t communists.
“Tankie” is a pejorative that basically looks like an exact replica of McCarthy’s strawman of a Communist. The purpose of the term is to claim the accused that they genuinely hold those McCarthyian characteristics, regardless of reality. It shuts down conversation because it would be inconvenient to have those conversations, it’s a thought-terminating cliché more than a real thing.
https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Tankie
Tankie is a pejorative label generally applied to authoritarian communists, especially those who support acts of repression by such regimes, their allies, or deny the occurrence of the events thereof
Here are some thoughts:
Marx said communism is stateless
The state won’t wither away if you keep defending its right to use force
The vanguard party must either accept revolution against themselves so that society can become more communist, or become reactionary tyrants
Modern Russia isn’t fucking socialist, you don’t need to defend it anymore
State capitalism isn’t socialism. State socialism requires robust democracy
Every actual successful communist nation that reached communism didn’t have a vanguard state
Being an enemy of the West doesn’t mean a country inherently deserves your support. That’s how voting works, it’s not how international relations work
Trump is planning to displace the Palestinians and make Gaza a US colony, and Lemmy’s Marxist-Leninist community tried to help him
Having a small movement with little power isn’t an excuse for making bad decisions. Take responsibility for your actions
Drag is not seeking to have an argument about each and every one of these points. Drag is seeking to prove that “tankie bad” is not a thought terminating cliche as you said. Drag has plenty of thoughts, and has already discussed them exhaustively on this platform. And this list of thoughts isn’t an invitation to sealion.
Marx said communism is stateless
every type of leftism that im aware of except for social democrats want to achieve a stateless society. to be fair im not sure if social democrats can even be considered leftists.
Different leftists have a different idea of what constitutes the “State” and what “Statelessness” looks like. For Marxists, the State is the oppressive elements of class society like millitarized police and armies that can only go away once the world is fully publicly owned and planned, and becomes classless. Anarchists however have an issue with hierarchy, rather than class, and want full decentralization and horizontalism. For a Marxist, Anarchism isn’t “stateless” as it retains class distinctions (each commune is interested in its own success), Anarchists obviously would see Marxism as not truly stateless.
This difference is why a lot of conversations go nowhere between some Marxists and Anarchists.
i generally lean ML, but both of these are stateless to me? isnt this really about horizontal vs hierarchical power?
If we are to agree with Engels, Communes (or cooperatives) consist entirely of Petite Bourgeoisie, unless there is no interaction outside said commune. Trade between communes implies each commune wishing to get more out of the trade, which implies differences in material wealth in communes that can then escalate into Capitalism. It isn’t what we think of as a State, but some form of armed millitia must be maintained to enshrine ownership within a commune, and not outside it, ergo a state enforcing class distinctions.
Really, though, I think the term “stateless” brings ideological baggage rather than logical. What’s important is the structures themselves, not how we wish to label them. Conversations around “true” Communism or whatnot inevitably fall into ideological debate based in idealism, rather than a logical analysis of material conditions.
Of course drag isn’t inviting to sealion, drag is gish-galloping and isn’t interested in any conversation. drag has proven this, from defending Nazi-led pograms as “true revolution” to pretending Marx was an Anarchist and wanted full decentralized horizontalism, rather than full centralization and democratization as industry gets ever more complex.
drag is therefore either uninterested in genuine conversation, or is a troll.
Yeah, at this point the word “tankie” is used so liberaly that communists are just one type of “tankie”.
or “tankie” is just a type of communist. who knows at this point.
https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Tankie
Tankie is a pejorative label generally applied to authoritarian communists, especially those who support acts of repression by such regimes, their allies, or deny the occurrence of the events thereof
https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Tankie
Tankie is a pejorative label generally applied to authoritarian communists, especially those who support acts of repression by such regimes, their allies, or deny the occurrence of the events thereof
Karl Marx said communism is stateless. Tankies are named after their support of soviet tanks to put down revolutions. That’s the opposite of stateless.
Marx also described the State as the elements of government that entrench class distinctions like private property rights and armies, but that such a state could only wither away once all industry was publicly owned and controlled. Marx believed the workers needed to be armed and protect revolution.
This has also been explained before, but one of the “revolutions” you defended was led by Nazis that were marking the doors of Jews and Communists, and had started lynching them.
Lol, well I guess there are no communists then, because not even Marx himself, as nonone has achieved statelessness.
Also, what a stupid image, it’s literally just horseshoe theory with “I’m on of the good leftists” liberal boot licking thrown in
Well except for the Catalonians, the Haudenosaunee, the Australians, the Polynesians…
Catalan made their own “state” that’s not stateless. Humans need societies and structures, we aren’t tigers, we’re weak hairless monkeys.
Ok, I think I’m comfortable resting my case that you contorting the meaning of the word ‘communist’ beyond reason.
Dude you know what I mean, don’t be the ACKSHUALLY guy
FOSS isn’t Soviet style state capitalism / socialism either.
Ok man, you do you.
I checked you profile, in 4 months you have 3 times the comments I wrote in 3 years and you answered my comment within 1 minute.
I strongly suggest a healthy cure of touching grass.Drag suggests you learn what a dude, guy, or man is, and why perhaps you shouldn’t call strangers those words, especially after investigating their profiles and most likely realising they’re nonbinary.
Yeah I’m sorry, I wasn’t trying to misgender you, in my language all of those are intended as gender neutral. And please don’t feel my suggestions are something meant to attack you, just don’t focus on small details to avoid listening what other people are really meaning to say.
No mention of dbzer0. com anywhere in the meme or text? To any newcomers, if you wouldn’t download a car then you don’t need to know about that instance.
Lol I made the original meme and text, I kinda just brain dumped the instances from the top of my head, the hope was others would chime in with their fav instances/comms and add to the list
Happy to report that Zip has been quite enjoyable.
It must be the chunk of land they’re sitting on. Just can’t see it because the full text can’t be read in its entirety from that close up.
If someone’s identity is based on hating tankies, then they’re mostly likely right-wing (aka liberal).
I don’t like tankies either but they’re just more right-wingers to me. Just the alt-imperial version of liberals. That’s why libs get so mad.
If tankies are right wing, liberals are right wing, not to mention those who are actually right-wing outside of your head-canon, who is not right-wing?
https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Tankie
Tankie is a pejorative label generally applied to authoritarian communists, especially those who support acts of repression by such regimes, their allies, or deny the occurrence of the events thereof
Imma be honest, I don’t think .ml belongs on there. Their users can be pretty cool.
.ml is a cesspool
Block it then
I mean you say that, but it’s not like every community on .ml is focused on politics man. Their largest communities are mostly about tech. And they have a pretty cool, albeit somewhat inactive datahoarders community, of whom I think some are helping with redundant archival of datasets being erased by Trump’s administration.
Edit Addendum: For anyone who has the storage space, I would consider helping out with the effort.
