If there were only some laws that would protect us or maybe a document outlining who we are as a people. Dammit! /s
I can’t believe we’re not even one year into this yet.
To be fair, quite a few have been. Theyr targeting each other
That’s not the only way.
Memes and jokes will break this administration.
Don’t forget videos! If we post enough videos of Trump buying a detestable fuckwit I’m sure everything will turn out just fine.
Not sure what kind of “together” we can have. Working with anti-MAGA conservatives is supposedly wrong, working with (even anti Netanyahu) Israel supporters is supposedly wrong - won’t get a majority that way.
Define ‘work with’ in a way that doesnt involve compromising on genocide.
“Anti-Netanyahu Israel supporters”? What, people who hate the leader but are fine with the slaughter and subsequent extermination of an entire ethnic group? And the only reason why people “can’t work with them” is because they get mad if you say that Israel is committing a genocide?
Anti-MAGA conservatives are also still very wrong and we have piles of evidence to show it. Compromising and making them feel good abojt how they’re only just now realizing how bad the far-right is while still clearly not learning the bigger lesson isn’t going to help anyone and instead just muddy the water.
There are a lot of progressive people who would get energized by a better campaign. Just gotta actually do that.
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The only way to defeat us is if the Trump administration and the movement that undergirds it manages to divide us. We can’t let that happen. To win as a majority coalition, we must always invite everybody who believes in civil liberties and human rights.
Agreed. The purity testing and splintering into to niche issues is what always screws the left.
If people could just focus and align on some core root cause issues, like getting corrupt money out of politics, the message would be stronger.
Centrists never have a problem when they do it against leftists, but cry fowl when leftists refuse to compromise with awful human beings that deserve the worst things that happen to them including the end of their lives.
But but… wHaT aBoUt SuPpOrTiNg GeNoCiDe?
All well and good, but what happens when someone comes to the meeting and says “we should end corruption and remove Trump, but I don’t like DEI policies.”
I’m guessing that will suddenly be added to the “root” cause and we’re right back into splintering and purity spirals again.
@FaceDeer @just_another_person @simplejack
“I’m a huge racist, but I don’t like Trump. Can I join your group?”
No.
That person should go find a “Racists Against Trump” group.
This is another perfect example of the point I’m making. The slightest variation from perfect alignment with your complete set of ideals and you’d rather descend into a purity spiral and purge your own supporters than beat Trump.
@FaceDeer @just_another_person @simplejack
I’m not going to partner with racists. I am not sorry.
If you are willing to work with fascists and racists, you are not my ally.
Be careful with insisting on “all or nothing”, you often end up with “nothing.” Like what happened in the 2024 election.
Also, I am not a racist. If you read my other comments you’ll find that I’m in favor of the intent of DEI programs, they’ve just been implemented badly in many cases. But it’s just like the virtue-signalling that Trump himself demands of his followers, the moment I said something that seemed slightly out of step I get ejected into the “enemy” camp. No compromise, no effort to understand nuance.
Well, bold strategy, good luck with your future elections I guess.
@FaceDeer @just_another_person @simplejack
I’ll take nothing over partnering with racists.
Winning with racists is losing.
And the racists winning without you is an even bigger loss.
I’m guessing that will suddenly be added to the “root” cause
Hopefully yes, because that’s exactly what it is. You can’t fight fascism with fascism lite.
You don’t vote for the candidate you want to fight for you, you vote for the candidate that’s easier for you to fight.
It’s not about fighting fascism with fascism lite, it’s about fighting fascism lite instead of full strength. Whatever you’re going to fight with is going to be much more effective against a weaker enemy.
You don’t vote for the candidate you want to fight for you, you vote for the candidate that’s easier for you to fight.
If that is the case, then I assume you voted for the geriatric cult of personality who will be dead within the year?
The fascist with a cabinet full of fascists, congressional control, SCOTUS control, and a detailed fascist playbook?
No, that would be stupid. Even if he is on death’s door, his replacement will be just as bad.
Ah ok. Then I assume you voted for the PSL candidate who isn’t quite on-board with full communism now (She still believes in markets) , but could probably be swayed that way right?
I did not give any consideration to candidates with no chance of winning, for obvious reasons.
I voted for the one who wasn’t a rabid fascist, and also stood a snowball’s chance of beating the rabid fascist. So the Dem candidate.
If it was useful to vote for allies instead of enemies (say, if our elections were some variety of ranked choice) I would have voted for whoever was most socially liberal and closest to market socialism (since that’s about the farthest we can hope to push the needle in a term or two; after that I’d start considering positions moderately to the left of that, rinse and repeat).
But it isn’t, so I didn’t. Dirty break is the only strategy that makes sense in our political environment. Obstruct the worst major party while you build a better platform grassroots style, and then once that platform is popular and normalized, and the worst major party is neutralized, then start running outside the Dem tent.
Voting for a candidate with no chance of success, with a population effectively propagandized against the platform, does not improve the material conditions of the working class in any way.
If everything is “root” then nothing is.
You… you think racism and xenophobia aren’t a root cause of this? If so, you should read a history book. Start from Nixon.
Racism and Xenophobia are tools the Nixo used quite effectively. Do you think Nixon was racist and that was his goal? Was he in Vietnam because of how racist he was? Perhaps you should take your own advice Re: Nixon and make sure you understand “Why” and don’t confuse it with “how.”
And here we go, a disagreement over policy balloons instantly into “racism and xenophobia” and an ally gets kicked out of the meeting because everything is black or white and no compromise is possible.
I find DEI policies to be a complicated topic, personally. I don’t oppose the basic idea and motive behind them, but I think they’ve been implemented poorly and often turn into discrimination in their own right. Am I now classed as “Trump supporter” in your eyes? I’ve been called a Trump supporter because I don’t like the recent Star Wars movies, so I’m sure a lot of people would indeed lump me in with him on that basis. And thus is proven the basic point about how Trump’s opponents are destroying themselves without Trump’s supporters having to lift a finger.
And here we go, a disagreement over policy balloons instantly into “racism and xenophobia”
Oh, so you’re saying you personally don’t like DEI policies. In that case I’m not necessarily calling you racist and xenophobic, but your seeming willingness to accept the results of past racism and xenophobia is definitely concerning. If I was running the meeting you wouldn’t get kicked out, but your “can we not include DEI in our platform” would be met with an uncompromising “no.” Before I explain why, do you understand the concepts of systemic racism and generational wealth?
but I think they’ve been implemented poorly and often turn into discrimination in their own right.
You need such “discrimination” to undo the results of past discrimination. For example, did you know that despite being only ~0.7% of the population, Native Americans make up about 24% of the poverty population of the US? Is this not injustice? How do you rectify it without affirmative action (aka DEI)?
You’re really, really intent on driving my point home here, aren’t you?
I oppose Trump. I think he’s the worst president the US has ever had and he needs to be stopped. But I expressed an unrelated view that is mildly in opposition to yours, and now that’s the only thing you can think about. You’re focusing entirely on attacking me on this issue.
Have you forgotten that this is about Trump, and about how the only way to defeat him is to get over these sorts of divisions and diversions?
I honestly don’t think dei did shit one way or another and was all just a show. That being said I agree. Lets all get behind the constitution including all the bill of rights and argue about the other things once we have enough rights to do so in a civilized manner.
“We need to get my rights now. Your rights can come after we can argue about them in a civilized manner.” Setting aside the moral duplicity of this, it’s just not how you build a coalition. For them to fight for your rights, you need to fight for theirs with equal commitment.
This comment chain is just chef’s kiss
At best I was expecting a few “huh, yeah, that’s a common pattern” responses.
This heap of “you’re racist! Get out!” Rage I got instead illustrated my point better than I could have hoped for. Unfortunately. What a complete lack of self-awareness.
I wonder if anyone would change their mind if I “recanted” and started gushing about how I loved everything about how things were being handled on the left with no reservations or caveats? Or if, once branded an enemy, always an enemy?
In any event not a promising sign for future efforts to take Trump down. Probably for the best I’m not American, I’ll just focus on staying out of the splash zone.
The Heritage Foundation is a cancer. It has to be irradiated, then cut out.
I think the biggest problem American politics has is only going to be fixed my overturning Citizens United
You know what really has to happen. Just nobody has the guts to do it.
It will take more than that. There is a lot of rot.
Bring your shovel, mate. 👌
oh 10 or 15 ought to do it. The rest are cowards and will have always been agaisnt maga.
But they’ll then join up with the new MAGA when that springs up in about a decade. Unless something is done about the core issues propping up MAGA, they’ll just keep coming. [Redacted]ing MAGAt leaders is, while not something I’d object to, not enough to really fix anything.
I mean… It’s a testable hypothesis. 🤷♂️
I’m down for some science!
Infrastructure sabotage?
We could have done that last November, but some people decided it was better to single-issue abstain / protest vote / spread FUD / otherwise get in the way. Yes, I’m still salty about that.
I’m a salt mine over this. And now that they have full power, because fucking snowflakes couldn’t even bother to vote on the local and state level, they will not give up that power. People are dying, poor families with disabled children are losing healthcare, trans people are under federal attack, science and education is being gutted, and on and on, because of political edge lords.
There won’t be another chance. Vote next time or don’t, it won’t matter because fascists aren’t going to just say ‘welp, I guess I’ve been voted out now’. Like we were saying, 2024 was the last free election if they won. But they couldn’t be bothered.
Add some potatoes to me, I’m done.
I’m a salt mine over this.
I like that expression.
People are dying, poor families with disabled children are losing healthcare, trans people are under federal attack, science and education is being gutted, and on and on
According to the people we’re both salty at, that’s apparently an acceptable price to pay to “teach the Dems a lesson”. (That was one of the most common reasons they’d give last year, and yep, I’m still salty about that too).
But at least they saved Palestine ¯_(ツ)_/¯
And the lesson the DNC learned was “try harder to appeal to fascists”
You know, like we said they would because that’s been their reaction each time they’ve lost over the last forty years
People didn’t learn from the “Bernie Bros” who told people not to vote for Clinton in 2016.
Two things I always point out.
Frederick Douglas worked for Lincoln in 1860, despite the fact that Lincoln was not an abolition candidate. At best he was willing to consider it. Douglas could have backed a full on abolitionsit, but he decided it was better to win with a poor candidate than to lose with a perfect one.
Second, MLK had a gay second in command. [https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Bayard_Rustin]
Rustin and King knew that 1960s America wasn’t ready for a gay rights movement, so they kept Rustin in the background.
Please stop repeating this myth. 80% of Sanders supporters voted for Clinton in 2016. This was up to 10% higher than the percentage of Clinton supporters who voted for Barack Obama in 2008.
Exactly.
Hillary lost because she was an unpopular candidate who represented The Establishment™ against an anti-establishment buffoon and then proceeded to botch her campaign, fucking around in Michigan (and then blowing the campaign.)
things like telling the SEIU not to focus on Michigan to “fool” trump into competing in Iowa.
edited.
So, you ignore everything else I wrote to focus on the "Bernie Bros.’
How about we deal with 2025 and beyond?
I didn’t ignore the rest. I just corrected the part that was incorrect and (in my view) unnecessarily divisive.
Rustin and King knew that 1960s America wasn’t ready for a gay rights movement, so they kept Rustin in the background.
Though it is worth pointing out MLK’s movement continued to expand to other groups, was more of a pro-socialist push near the end and probably would have kept going, had he not gotten shot.
You can do whatever speculation you want, it doesn’t change the fact that King knew what was possible and what wasn’t.
I’ve seen people quote “Letter From the Birmingham Jail” over and over when they want to push people to action. They ignore the fact that King was a savvy politician who knew how to get the best results.
Left unity doesn’t include right wingers who are willing to throw away and entire election because they won’t stop supporting Israel. If you wanna win an election, try actually appealing to the left instead of obstinately moving farther and farther right along with the party you unconditionally support
I voted for Kamala btw, so don’t bother trying that angle. And I will never, for any reason, support newsom and his anti trans, anti homeless, fascist platforming ass. If you’re already supporting him, you’re exactly why Kamala lost, and why he’ll lose in 2028
As you should be. Here we are.
Proof that this decided the election?
Doesn’t matter.
There was a clear and present danger that everyone with two brain cells to rub together was trying to prevent, and these people were actively standing in the way.
So you’re mad at something you’re not even sure had any actual effect? In that case I’m mad at the flying spaghetti monster for using 5G brainwaves to make people vote for Trump.
Let me state it as a parable: If the building was on fire and someone was blocking the fire exit, but I managed to escape by shattering a 2nd floor window, yes, I would be mad at the person blocking the exit.
And more so: This was, very much, a clear and present danger. As we are all experiencing now. None of what is happening now is a surprise. Yet those people still refused to help or lift a finger to prevent it.
You’re the one blocking the exit just now
Hilary’s campaign failed to adapt to Trump’s campaign
BBC probably had the best analysis, and you’ll note they don’t mention Bernie Bros.
In a country where millions more women vote than men, it was thought that her gender would give her a major advantage. But what became clear in the primaries against her rival Bernie Sanders was how hard she found it to enthuse young women voters especially about electing the country’s first female president, and shattering the most resilient glass ceiling in global politics.
Many women never warmed to her. Some remembered what were interpreted as disparaging remarks made when she was first lady about not wanting to stay at home making cookies. When Donald Trump accused her of enabling her husband’s affairs, and of attacking the women who accused Bill Clinton of molesting them, many women nodded in agreement.
Doubtless, old-fashioned, unreconstructed sexism played a part too: the refusal of many male voters to countenance a female president.
In a year when so many Americans wanted change, she appeared to offer more of the same. It’s always hard for a party to win three successive terms in the White House. The Democrats have not done it since the 1940s. But that problem was exacerbated by the fact that so many voters were bored with the Clintons.
🔫
With a baseball bat?
I was going to say rusty rebar
Well if he gets tetanus, he’d finally have to shut the fuck up.
I was thinking a sock full of old batteries might be cheaper if you buy in bulk.
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The only way to defeat us is if the Trump administration and the movement that undergirds it manages to divide us. We can’t let that happen. To win as a majority coalition, we must always invite everybody who believes in civil liberties and human rights.
Sooooo we’re defeated? 1/3 of the population voted for this and is actively cheering it on, 1/3 don’t give enough of a shit to take action for whatever reason, and the last 1/3 are the target of the first 1/3.
How the fuck are we supposed to band together and “invite everybody that believes in civil liberties and human rights” when half of the country is either championing or passively allowing the stripping away of those rights? This would require the right wing to fundamentally shift their views on immigrants and gay people, which they obviously have no interest in doing.
All that was needed to defeat Hitler was to make the Nazis see Jews as people.
That’s pretty much what’s being said here. Can we please be realistic and not pretend that both sides are equal and valid in their rationale and behavior? If someone starts punching every gay person around them, you don’t tell the gay people to be more cooperative and understanding, you arrest the fucker and punish them.
