E: apparently it needs to be said that I am not suggesting you switch to Linux on your phone today; just that development needs to accelerate. Please don’t be one of the 34 people that replied to tell me Linux is not ready.
Android has always been a fairly open platform, especially if you were deliberate about getting it that way, but we’ve seen in recent months an extremely rapid devolution of the Android ecosystem:
- The closing of development of an increasing number of components in AOSP.
- Samsung, Xiaomi and OnePlus have removed the option of bootloader unlocking on all of their devices. I suspect Google is not far behind.
- Google implementing Play Integrity API and encouraging developers to implement it, which prevents apps from the Google Play Store from being downloaded without a system-wide OS-level account login. Notably the EU’s own identity verification wallet requires this, in stark contrast to their own laws and policies, despite the protest of hundreds on Github.
- And finally, the mandatory implementation of developer verification across Android systems. Yes, if you’re running a 3rd-party OS like GOS you won’t be directly affected by this, but it will impact 99.9% of devices, and I foresee many open source developers just opting out of developing apps for Android entirely as a result. We’ve already seen SyncThing simply discontinue development for this reason, citing issues with Google Play Store. They’ve also repeatedly denied updates for NextCloud with no explanation, only restoring it after mass outcry. And we’ve already seen Google targeting any software intended to circumvent ads, labeling them in the system as “dangerous” and “untrusted”. This will most certainly carry into their new “verification” system.
Google once competed with Apple for customers. But in a world where Google walks away from the biggest antitrust trial since 1998 with yet another slap on the wrist, competition is dead, and Google is taking notes from Apple about what they can legally get away with.
Android as we know it is dead. And/or will be dead very soon. We need an open replacement.
E2: thank you to everyone stopping by from Hacker News, Reddit, etc. to check out the threadiverse. I hope you’ll stick around for a while. Check out https://phtn.app/ and the Voyager and Blorp apps for a nicer UI. Fuck Spez!
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Hi, I’ve just registered here to bring an addition to the conversation that hasn’t been mentioned yet: Droidian.
It’s a Debian-based distro that can run on a number of Android phones, and it uses Halium technology to utilize the Android device drivers, but on top of those, it provides a complete Debian+Phosh experience!
On well-supported devices the performance is just like native Android, with camera support and almost everything seems to work. Waydroid also provides a full Android system if needed, again, with good performance.
In my view, this project can pave the way for Linux development for smartphones, as the user interacts with a standard Phosh desktop environment, so new apps can also be developed for the platform without the need of specialized hardware such as the Pinephone.
A good option for this could be the Thinkphone by Motorola device (codename bronco), as it is officially supported, has a good battery and a pretty recent SoC (SD8+Gen1) compared to most devices supported by Droidian/Ubuntu Touch/PostmarketOS. In my region it can be had for ~€250 brand new. When most other supported devices are Poco F1/Pixel 3a era, this is can be huge for smartphone Linux enthusiasts. Also, it’s officialy supported by LineageOS as well.
Another device, that’s even better supported by Droidian but pricier, is the Furilabs FLX1.
Welcome to the Threadiverse
Thanks!
My next phone is definitely going to be a Linux phone. I don’t care if it’s ready. I’m ready.
My feelings on point.
My next phone will run Linux, even if it is inconvenient.
As soon as this phone is paid off, I’ll be changing from Google Fi as well. Which sucks because it’s hella cheap.
I’m with you, I’ve switched all my computers to Linux for similar reasons. I bought an android phone recently and put Linux on that, although still some things to iron out such as sound and microphone input but it’s working well otherwise. Looking forward to when I can ditch my iPhone.
I’ve switched as well but didn’t realize you could put Linux on an android device. Is it a specific distro and can you throw it on an old android tablet?
There are several distros. You do need to ensure (as listed in the OP) that your bootloader is unlockable (listed as “OEM unlock” in Android).
- SailfishOS
- Ubuntu Touch
- Mobian
- PostmarketOS
- Manjaro ARM
What options are you looking into as far as a Fi replacement? I’m also on Fi and want to ditch them, and the Pixel soon.
I like us mobile alot. Well priced too
You can’t sideload in Linux.
On linux it’s just called running an executable
Edit: As a less snarky answer, you can run Android apps natively on linux by installing Android OS in a container using something like
AnboxWaydroid.
I should probably go get a replacement screen for my old OnePlus 3T, while I still can…
I wholeheartedly agree. More so: I do not only think, we will need a new, open mobile platform, but also feel such a great urge for it myself, that I will migrate to something alternative as soon as my mobile phone reached its EOL. I don’t know how exactly that will look like, but I am eager to accept every inconvenience to escape un-free big tech.
My next phone will be a ThinkPad because it has a SIM card slot.
With the simcard slot can you use mobile data? If so thats amazing and I will be looking for that feature on my next device.
I have a laptop with a SIM slot and I can use mobile data, SMS and even make voice calls. It doesn’t support 5G though. Also the mobile hardware is crap, and I get like a 10th of the speed over 4G that I do on my phone, plus it chews through battery.
So yeah, awesome feature but not as nicely implemented as I’d like. Hopefully the Thinkpad version is better!
That was the same for mobile internet connections on a phone before Apple suddenly made that desirable to the mainstream. Also I remember ungodly terrible experiences getting data from a PC to a phone and vice versa with Samsung’s software in an era before smartphones. Both things are nowadays most basic features. So, having at least kind of functioning SIM slots in notebooks is already a promising PoC.
The other main thing that kills the feature for me is having to have a second SIM. if I could somehow have two SIM’s on the same unlimited contract I use for my phone, it’d obviously be a no-brainer. but I really don’t want to be paying an extra £20/month just so I can avoid tethering.
yep you can. actually a lot of business laptops other than thinkpads also have one, it’s very useful.
I’m also owner of SailfishOS phone there are some issues though but OS is great :)
Unfortunately there’s a lot(!) to do to make Linux enjoyable on a phone. I bought a Pinephone some years ago. And in addition to the slow hardware, the entire software/desktop experience isn’t great. While everyone else has instant messengers, Linux doesn’t have connected standby and emails and messages just don’t arrive unless the screen is on. It wastes quite some power, and there are a bazillion small little quirks and annoyances and it’s barely usable if compared to a regular smartphone. I think someone needs to invest quite some more time and money until this becomes a thing. I mean don’t get me wrong, Linux and the low-level system is awesome. And it’s brilliant on any server/laptop/desktop computer. It’s just that there’s so many things missing for a proper phone experience. And it’s not just mildly inconvenient, but like people expect instant messages to be delivered…
It seems like you read the title as “everyone needs to switch to Linux mobile right now” but that’s not what it says.
The point is, as you said, there’s a lot of work that needs to be done, and that work is more important now than ever.
So which is the best project to back?
I dunno! It will really require the participation of the entire community.
Gnome has been making great progress on the graphical front.
Notifications should be pretty simple, and probably should be provided by hardware manufacturers. But the support will need to be implemented into the apps that need them. That can potentially also fix the battery issue.
PostmarketOS I think is probably the most mature Linux mobile package currently but I’m no expert on the subject.
Sure. It’s just that the timeframe is a bit disheartening. To me… so all of this is highly subjective. We had the Nokia N900 in like 2009. And I was expecting to live the full Linux experience within a few years and those things to become a bit more affordable. And today it’s almost 16 years later and it doesn’t feel like we’ve come substantially closer. More recently we had Librem and Pine64 put some effort and publicity into it, and that’s also been 5 years. The mobile/touch desktops made some good progress. PostmarketOS is kind of nice. But there are entire layers missing like the app framework in Android which enables such app lifecycles, connected standby… Sandboxing and a fine-granular permission system for proprietary apps (or just modern mainstream usage) is kind of in its infancy. And I’m not even sure if everyone is going to use Flatpak for everything. And all of those missing things are huge undertakings.
So I’m not sure when to expect such an every-day phone… Maybe in 2030 or 2035? But that’s kind of late if the headline is “more important now, than ever”. Because all the while Google is moving more and more stuff from AOSP into their proprietary Play services and it’s getting uncomfortable for me. We have a deadline with the Google messes with the allowed apps on a phone starting 2027. And my life includes more and more mandatory apps, or I have to forfeit taking part in society, culture, convenience or riding a train… This year, Google started giving the GrapheneOS devs a hard time… Now they’re making it even more complicated.
So of course not everyone has to use it, and I’m first of all concerned with my own wellbeing. But I really don’t see a solution in the near future which is going to address the important issues if today and the next few years. So I’m a bit unsure if a Linux phone will come around and help me before it’s too late, or if I need to find other ways to deal with it.
True but I also never even considered it before because honestly open source Android works really great on most devices already. Now that that’s all basically disappearing, hopefully more people will be more dedicated to creating an alternative.
Can you help me understand why Linux phones are the answer rather than a community maintained android fork?
Android is already fully featured and has a solid ecosystem so it’s usable now, not in 5-10 years with less of a need for adjustment for the people who want to switch.
Basically, why take several steps backwards and start from scratch?
Because a community maintained fork wont solve the problems in the OP?
Check out postmarketOS, a real Linux distro for phones with a 10-year life cycle goal and mainline kernel support. It’s not daily-driver ready for everyone, but it frees you from Google and OEM lockdowns. If we want an open mobile future, this is the project worth supporting.
This looks great. If we collectively threw some funding behind a few worthy projects, even at 1-10€ per person, it could really accelerate development.
Donation page link for those who’d also like to send some cash their way: https://opencollective.com/postmarketos
Thanks for the suggestion! I was about to ask what non-Android Linux options are available.
Smart phones are simultaneously such a wonder of human engineering and have become such a disappointment of human greed.
This whole situation has made me just care less about my phone, and use it less in my life while I use Linux PCs much more.
I don’t see my phone as a “computer” at this point, really. It’s more of a communication appliance. If I’m launching an app that’s not texting, calling, GPS, or music, it’s probably a replacement for a website I’d normally use on a PC.
Linux phones could change this though. The idea of your PC being your docked phone would work great for most use cases. Unfortunately though, even though I would love it I don’t really see the general public jumping at the chance to get back to the desktop experience. I could maybe see a little traction in the business world.
I found myself using my phone less and less too, and to be honest, I’m even feeling healthier mentally. Portable devices were supposed to improve our life, not make it worse. Big tech did something really terrible to phones :(
This is pretty much how I am. Use my desktop for important things. On weekends I try to not even have my phone on my person and I check it a couple times a day while it stays in the bedroom like a house phone. Life is so much better without it.
I unfortunately still do like to take it with if walking/biking/driving but I wish I didn’t. Id like to have another phone that only makes phone calls for that but has my same number. Its funny. When I was a kid we didn’t even think about it because none of us had phones. Going on a random dirt bike ride miles away with nothing. Better (also unsafe) times.
Im tired of smartphones consuming everyone’s minds.
Im tired of smartphones consuming everyone’s minds.
Resisting the standard smartphone addiction just makes the addiction of some others so much more apparent. My own wife is still pretty badly shackled to hers.
My one friend cant stop staring at his when driving. He lives near me and sometimes I wave at him driving by and hes like I never even saw you. Like dude, youre a fucking idiot.
Valve could do it.
the vast majority of commenters here either have no direct experience with a Linux phone or have seen some shallow youtube “review” of a dude swiping the same two screens left/right and extrapolate a buncha shit that has no contact with reality.
presently, and in the foreseeable future, linux phones aren’t an android alternative, they are just linux on the phone, i.e. they allow you to do linux shit on a handheld device.
like, the bleeding edge version of any variant (plasma mobile, gnome, phosh) isn’t even close to an Android phone from like 2015, let alone a modern one.
and that’s before we touch on the pillars of mobile tech like fluidity, battery efficiency, reliability, etc., none of those things are even in a remotely passable state, not to mention - using the thing to make calls. you are better off forgetting about the camera, as well.
and the reason is simple, not only is there a gargantuan discrepancy between evil corp’s resources and the predominantly unpaid enthusiasts, each dev team’s reimplementing shit that’s already solved on another platform. apple doesn’t have to do that. google as well.
then there’s the idea that the javascript-backed Gnome - that has issues running fluidly on super-capable hardware - is the basis on a low-power device on which the linux mobile phone experience is built. reinventing solved shit, but in a stupid way - THREE FINGER swipe on a phone, really?
although there’s a solid app base, the apps that are supposedly mobile friendly are few and far between, most are just downright unusable on a vertical screen and dog help you if launch an electron app. firefox, even with pmOS patches (useless without) is tiresome to use. you can forget about dating, ubering, banking, or even just using a messenger everybody else does.
if you’re squeamish about flashing custom recoveries and ROMs, the e.g. pmOS install process is way, way, way more involved and failure prone. if you go with ubuntu touch or mobian, even more so.
finally, if you’re talking about a device that you’ve grown accustomed to to the extent that you’re using it subconsciously, swiping and multitasking and such whilst walking and dodging other pedestrians - no such thing exists over here.
I’m just tying this up because I keep reading about “switching”, people are either delusional or misinformed, there’s nothing (yet) to switch to.
get a couple of $50 ex-flaghips to play with, flash lineageOS on one and pmOS on the other and that should hold you over for a coupla years.
I’ll consider a Linux phone as long as the following are met:
- Battery life is decent (for me this means a minimum of 24 hours of light use and no mystery drains).
- Reliable enough to not fear for my life when traveling.
- UX is polished enough to not be painful.
- Email notifications and communication apps work correctly (Signal, Telegram, WhatsApp).
If these are met, I’ll buy whatever is available in a year or two.
UX is polished enough to not be painful
This one requirement I believe to be already met. Mobile kde, for one, is pretty nice. I believe the bottleneck of linux phones are really in the hardware
communication apps work correctly (Signal, Telegram, WhatsApp).
Google and Facebook will cooperate. WhatsApp will never work reliably.
WhatsApp will never work reliably.
Use the web version, although you’ll need a phone to authenticate.
Better yet, move out of whatsapp (i know, network effect).There’s also some whatsapp clients on flathub that claim to support linux mobile. Matrix bridges are also available.
Send me back to the 90s with the flip phone. Old Nokia with a changeable battery, no malicious firmware that has spyware built in. It’s just a phone.
i tried to do this recently but it created a lot of friction in daily life. once the masses have moved on, it’s hard to keep the old stuff, sadly. it’s really frustrating.
Yep, I tried going the dumbphone route and lasted about a month. I travel a fair bit for work, and it’s almost impossible now without a smartphone.
