Any nation can have a sovereign wealth fund, Australia has a sovereign wealth fund and they have national debt, hell even in America there are states with a sovereign wealth fund, even Alaska with their massive deficits and if your referring to Norway, they had national debt until the discovered oil and they created their fund with oil taxes.
The fact you’re comparing national debt to personal credit card debt tells me all I need to know about your thinking here.
Also nice to know you think that Norway’s decision to start a sovereign wealth fund was a bad idea.
We can talk about of the US starting a SWF, especially in the age of dumbass Republican rule, is a good or bad idea but your stated fact that these funds are only for nations without debt is still factually incorrect.
Also Norway is literally the prime example of when a sovereign wealth fund works and makes sense… They have a massive… wait for it… SURPLUS… due to their nation’s natural resources (oil)
They didn’t have a massive SURPLUS when they made the fund. They made a conscious decision to tax and create a new revenue source that made them a debt free nation they are today, something we could do here, but not at that scale or expecting the same results because the US is a much larger country, by not coddling the balls of corporations and the ultra wealthy or if the US wants to “drill baby drill”, tax and regulate the new sources of oil and create a SWF.
But again, you seem to completely stuck on the myopic view point of just saying the US has debt hence the US cannot create a SWF because of credit card debt.
And again, plenty of examples of nations that have national debt and deficits but still have and fund a SWF.
Anyways, this conversation is going absolutely nowhere so have a good day.
Because that’s where the money that is put into the fund comes from. Otherwise you’re putting in money that should probably be used to balance the deficit.
but how is this different than some hedge fund or bank using money the government didn’t have but still spent, using that money to invest into something? Because as I understand it, sovereign wealth funds are just the govt investing into stuff that has a long term gain
If its not immediately clear to someonr, here is an explanation.
We all know the government borrows money right? Well the moment the government becomes an operator in the market, the market will lose faith in the stability of the government. When that happens interest rates on US debt skyrocket and its no longer possible to make more money than it costs to borrow.
It would blow up our debt immensely. Let’s say the current T bill rate is 4% and you can somehow funnel a Trillion dollars into your sovereign wealth fund. Let’s say you trade with it and do great, an awesome 15% return. That’s an extra 150B, cool right? Well now remember that the market will demand higher rates on T-bills, and let’s say it goes up only 2% to 6%. Well that means you ate now paying an extra 2% on the 36T in debt you have to continually refinance. Meaning you lost 720 Billion to make 150 Billion.
I decide to start a business. I borrow a million dollars from the bank at 2% interest.
I now have a million dollars cash, and a million dollars of debt. Logically, rather than investing my million dollars of cash in building and growing a business, I should use it to pay off my debt. That’s clearly the the best use for that money.
Do you see how what you’re saying doesn’t make any sense?
What you’re misrepresenting is that its not the millions dollars that is supposed to pay the debt, its the revenue you get after investing that million dollars into the company.
You’re claiming it makes sense for the company to invest a large portion of that revenue in growing the company when the revenue is not even enough to pay back the interest from the bank?
Wait, doesn’t that sounds familiar? That’s basically how they run companies under a venture capital model. Who cares about negative profit as long as you continue growing, baby. I guess you really like how Silicon Valley startups run their business.
I honestly don’t even know how to respond to a comment like this. Every word is such abject nonsense that it’s hard to even figure out where to begin, and I frankly do not have the energy for it.
Those are for nations running a surplus, not a deficit.
Patently false.
Any nation can have a sovereign wealth fund, Australia has a sovereign wealth fund and they have national debt, hell even in America there are states with a sovereign wealth fund, even Alaska with their massive deficits and if your referring to Norway, they had national debt until the discovered oil and they created their fund with oil taxes.
😂 that cracked me up
Yeah of course they can, like I can open and fund an IRA while underwater on credit card debt…
Any nation can also have policies that are bad or stupid or horrific.
The fact you’re comparing national debt to personal credit card debt tells me all I need to know about your thinking here.
Also nice to know you think that Norway’s decision to start a sovereign wealth fund was a bad idea.
We can talk about of the US starting a SWF, especially in the age of dumbass Republican rule, is a good or bad idea but your stated fact that these funds are only for nations without debt is still factually incorrect.
wooooooosh. That wasn’t the comparison.
Also Norway is literally the prime example of when a sovereign wealth fund works and makes sense… They have a massive… wait for it… SURPLUS… due to their nation’s natural resources (oil)
They didn’t have a massive SURPLUS when they made the fund. They made a conscious decision to tax and create a new revenue source that made them a debt free nation they are today, something we could do here, but not at that scale or expecting the same results because the US is a much larger country, by not coddling the balls of corporations and the ultra wealthy or if the US wants to “drill baby drill”, tax and regulate the new sources of oil and create a SWF.
But again, you seem to completely stuck on the myopic view point of just saying the US has debt hence the US cannot create a SWF because of credit card debt.
And again, plenty of examples of nations that have national debt and deficits but still have and fund a SWF.
Anyways, this conversation is going absolutely nowhere so have a good day.
wut, you’re the only one trying to make a comparison between credit card debt and the national debt. They aren’t comparable things, FYI…
ik, but hypothetically, why would a surplus be needed?
You don’t take out a loan to put into a savings account. That’s how you lose money.
Because that’s where the money that is put into the fund comes from. Otherwise you’re putting in money that should probably be used to balance the deficit.
but how is this different than some hedge fund or bank using money the government didn’t have but still spent, using that money to invest into something? Because as I understand it, sovereign wealth funds are just the govt investing into stuff that has a long term gain
There’s not much difference, but we can still agree that the example you gave are not exactly a sustainable way to grow, right?
If its not immediately clear to someonr, here is an explanation.
We all know the government borrows money right? Well the moment the government becomes an operator in the market, the market will lose faith in the stability of the government. When that happens interest rates on US debt skyrocket and its no longer possible to make more money than it costs to borrow.
It would blow up our debt immensely. Let’s say the current T bill rate is 4% and you can somehow funnel a Trillion dollars into your sovereign wealth fund. Let’s say you trade with it and do great, an awesome 15% return. That’s an extra 150B, cool right? Well now remember that the market will demand higher rates on T-bills, and let’s say it goes up only 2% to 6%. Well that means you ate now paying an extra 2% on the 36T in debt you have to continually refinance. Meaning you lost 720 Billion to make 150 Billion.
I decide to start a business. I borrow a million dollars from the bank at 2% interest.
I now have a million dollars cash, and a million dollars of debt. Logically, rather than investing my million dollars of cash in building and growing a business, I should use it to pay off my debt. That’s clearly the the best use for that money.
Do you see how what you’re saying doesn’t make any sense?
What you’re misrepresenting is that its not the millions dollars that is supposed to pay the debt, its the revenue you get after investing that million dollars into the company.
You’re claiming it makes sense for the company to invest a large portion of that revenue in growing the company when the revenue is not even enough to pay back the interest from the bank?
Wait, doesn’t that sounds familiar? That’s basically how they run companies under a venture capital model. Who cares about negative profit as long as you continue growing, baby. I guess you really like how Silicon Valley startups run their business.
I honestly don’t even know how to respond to a comment like this. Every word is such abject nonsense that it’s hard to even figure out where to begin, and I frankly do not have the energy for it.
Now you know how I feel reading your comment. It made zero sense, so it was easy to counter.