So, in the state where it’s completely OK to sacrifice an innocent child, because the vaccine has “bad stuff” in it - most likely the people saying that could not list ingredients, of course, while other pregnant women who’ve lost their pregnancies are regularly suspected of sabotaging, or otherwise finding ways to abort their pregnancies. The same state that’s also trying to extradite a doctor from NY over sending abortion medication to a TX resident.
So, the lesson here is to not abort an unwanted pregnancy, but instead, let the child be born, then decide you have an issue with vaccinations, before tossing your child into parks, play dates, and the brick & mortar petri-dish all parents know schools to be? I’m just trying to figure out the rules here…so a fetus is a person, but a child is not? Or maybe women don’t get to make choices with their bodies, but parents get to make choices for their children’s bodies? Of course parents make choices on their children’s behalf every day, but these choices?
Oh, and lets not forget, that meanwhile, Catholic Health Initiatives-Iowa, a faith-based health care provider, is arguing in a medical malpractice case that the loss of an unborn child does not equate to the death of a “person” for the purpose of calculating damage awards. Gee, what an awfully convenient twist in the rules, when money enters the scene - depending upon how this all plays out.
are there even any leftists left in shitter?
Bernie Sanders?
The guy the DNC fought against to give us Hillary.
Lots of addicts who can’t leave, yes
There is no viable party that is against the military industrial complex.
If you take a step back and look at the Democrats and Republicans, they agree and overlap on far more many issues than they differ. Indeed, in the context of a lot of foreign governments, both of our parties would be considered dangerously right-wing. Yet, there’s no serious opposition in the US, as you say.
The issue has been falsely bifurcated in the USA where looking elsewhere is “throwing your vote away”. Yet, without an alternative party, there are many problems in the USA which are just non-starters, like pacifism. Totally unthinkable under either party’s operational guidelines.
I have to wonder, why DOESN’T the US have any other significant parties? Like you clearly have them but they’re practically irrelevant.
Here in Canada we also have a winner takes all voting system (which is unfortunate. But we hope to change in the future) but smaller parties like the NDPs and greens still manage to hold some relevance even if at least at a regional or provincial level.
Hell, in 2011 the NDP was the opposition against Harper’s CPC with the Liberals doing worse than they ever had.
During the Ontario Provincial election while the Liberals lost seats to the Tories the greens held both their seats and NEARLY got a 3rd.
It’s no accident. Both parties collude to make sure a 3rd does not arise. The saying “voting 3rd party is throwing your vote away” is very, very common. Your classification of these parties as practically irrelevant is very accurate, because I don’t believe any other party has cracked double digit % at the federal level.
I was wondering about that though. I’m not from the US so I don’t understand the depths of the system. But wouldn’t a third party only have to get a super tiny amount of votes, to become part of the government? Let’s say Democrats and Republicans have 48% of the vote. And there is a third party that got 4% (in actual Electors) .
They would either have to include the small party and make some concessions to them, or agree with the other big party on a president.
Like that it should at least be possible to push a single topic through, like free Medicare. And then just work with whichever party is less against it.
No preferential voting system, first past the post only. Minority parties are worse than useless, they actively harm the outcome in such a system.
It has to do with how political parties in the US are regulated through the election commissions. Voters register with political parties through the commission not the party itself. The commission is bipartisan to prevent a party from cheating its own voters. For example, the democratic party couldn’t just kick Bernie off the primary ballot despite him being independent his whole life.
At the same time this bipartisan election commission determines what other parties are allowed to have ballot line access and have little interest in breaking the doupoly.
The flip side to this is any Leninist pushing for a workers party has to come to terms with the fact that their workers party legally can’t practice Democratic Centralism if they want to have a ballot line party.
123 Murdered so far…
We need to burn the slaver’s constitution and replace it with a modern document if anything.
There are literally several opposition parties who feel like this. They will never get power because of the first past the post voting system and this particular stance can be so easily argued as anti American that if this is all you have to run on, you’re screwed because we have Trump to deal with and destroying party unity for this would help him.
2016 called they want their propaganda back
I’m not voting for Neoliberals anymore. No matter how much they try to guilt me.
Sorry.
They have had 50 years of control and have only helped push our society further twoards the right and fascism.
If the Neoliberals want to vote with the leftists this time that’s fine, but they have proven they are impotent leaders.
This is something the evangelicals understand that the left doesn’t. Politicians are tools. You use the best available tool to do the job.
They’re using Trump to get what they want.
You’re proposing we build a tool factory on a ten year timeline to build a better tool, and until then we just do fuck all.
Hi, quick question, I’m trying to farm a plot of land, but I only have two tools, one that spreads salt over it and another that spreads nuclear waste over it, how should I proceed?
When both tools are actively harmful to the tasks you’re trying to accomplish, you shouldn’t use either. In fact you should dismantle them entirely, maybe once they’re fully destroyed you can salvage something useful from the parts. But you certainly don’t use the machine that salts the earth if you’re hoping to grow plants, and you certainly don’t use the Democratic party if you’re looking to advance progressive causes.
These people hate us and everything we want to accomplish, why on earth would we just fall in line behind them, asking nothing in return?
Btw, the right is far more inclined towards defection from their party when they don’t get their way. That’s the reason why the Republican party has been shifted to the right. It’s liberals who are die hard committed to this suicidal and irrational ideology of “lesser evilism.”
Because if you don’t choose the salt, someone else will use the nuke anyway.
So who do you plan to vote for next election then?
Whoever seems to have the most support that is an independent. Or at least not a D/R
I’ve given every vote of my adult life to the Democratic party, and they have never meaningfully improved things in my lifetime besides the ACA.
We need leadership that wants to do more than just maintain the status quo.
I’ll probably keep voting Democrat for local elections because I like the things my local reps have been doing, and the Republicans locally are batshit
If you don’t mind me asking, just because I’m curious, what age range do you place yourself in? I don’t want to know your actual age because I hate asking people for that direct of information online, but just using 5 year intervals, are you 20-25, 25-30, etc.? Only if you’re comfortable answering because I’m interested in understanding trends as best I can.
I’ll probably keep voting Democrat for local elections because I like the things my local reps have been doing
I also think this is important to note, because a lot of the time the work is done at the lower level. Obviously with the current admin that has changed for America, but I’m at least happy to hear you feel represented by your local reps.
sigh
You post a message containing a demand for an opposition party, then when you’re reminded that they exist you say you won’t vote for them.
And people wonder why most countries have wandered centre-right over the past 40 years.
SIGH
I have voted dem all my life.
I’m done waiting for them to force their rich doners to make the necessary concessions for our economy and society to function for everybody again.
The Neoliberal leadership that has 100% control of the private ran DNC party is not interested in making their rich doners and friends lose money.
You need to understand when I say private I mean PRIVATE
The DNC leaders choose the canidate, they don’t legally have to hold a primary, they don’t legally have to hold fair primaries.
Becauae these shaded figures with private control of the DNC have 100% control of who is the Democratic candidate they will never choose someone who is willing to make meaningful change at the expense of their doners who tell them what to do.
Wealth inequality is spiraling out of control and wealth redistribution is required for the systems we all depend on for SURVIVAL to function properly again.
The DNC will not save us, the RNC is the RNC. We probably aren’t getting out of this by voting anymore.
I think there’s a little bit of confusion and talking past each other. Would really help if people used actual party names so there’s less confusion but I understand once you bring names in then people are more likely polarized about the context.
They will never get power because of the first past the post voting system
(meaning there’s no hope for a 3rd party, better vote D against R)
I’m not voting for Neoliberals anymore.
(not voting for D)
I think at this point even saying “opposition party” is muddying the waters. Are they opposite on Immigration/border policy? War? Taxation? Voting Rights?
They make no sense so they’re probably a Russian troll meant to confuse people
“I don’t understand you so you must be a foreigner!”
When you’re muddying the waters and preaching not voting for either side, you’re indistinguishable from one so it doesn’t really matter to me
BlueMAGA not even pretending not to be Ultranationalists any more
Hope you like Trump then.
2016 rhetoric
You are why history repeated itself.
They are trying to push progressive stances and you are against it. We all saw what happened in 2016
If I believed being pro Palestine was actually progressive and not just pro Islam I wouldn’t be against it just saying. In 2016 pissed off Bernie bros didn’t vote for Clinton because they were rightly pissed at her and Trump got elected just like all the pro Palestine liberals decided to give the election to Trump because more smart people in power here agree with my take on Palestine than they do with yours because they’ve seen how cruel Islam is.
Damn you are racist as fuck, what happened to you?
Also using periods would help people read your run on sentence, thats one big insane racist rant.
Scratch a lib and a fash bleeds.
this particular stance can be so easily argued as anti American
Yes, opposing the genocide of the world’s poorest people is definitely anti-american.
More like opposing the use of military to respond to direct attacks on it.
…when said military is in the process of supporting a genocide, yes.
If I have to choose between being the bully or bullied, and there’s no third option, no way to not be either, I would choose to be the bully.
Regardless of whether or not this analogy is accurate, this how our military and country feels about use of military force and this philosophy is founded considering the aggression we have is a human trait, not just us, and that psycho and sociopaths define history more than the rest.
Bombing places and doing genocide only creates more enemies and more reasons to hate us. It’s so fucking stupid, we literally spent 20 years in Afghanistan learning that lesson (not to mention Vietnam!), but apparently some people still haven’t gotten the message. Other countries somehow avoid being bullied despite not being bullies, the US is the biggest bully on the planet and gets blowback as a result.
Our leaders know it’ll happen, they count on it, more enemies means more justification to funnel money to the cronies in the military industrial complex. The real suckers are the ones who buy into that bullshit when they’re not even profiting, when their tax dollars are going towards lining the pockets of a Raytheon executive.
I agree for the most part hence the political nature of my comment. I feel right now the US is at an impasse and idk where it’d go. While Trump is president, he doesn’t exactly have the Mandate of Heaven.
Trust me, no other cultures saw those messages and thought about the incompetent opsec. They saw how Americans slay with accompanying emojis and not a single mention of the indiscriminate collateral human lives. Not as if they are concerned even about the optics. Just no mention. Not internal. Not external. Nothing. The human rights considerations are not evaded or even acknowledged. The conventions of war, even what the other nations might say, nothing. Operating anywhere in the world with emoticon decorated executions. It is notable for the rest of the world. This is the extent of the mercy of the few. Those that decide who lives. That the native opposition’s persecution and domestic news coverage is exclusively over how it was leaked… It is not something you can ignore when it can be you at any moment. And soon, Americans themselves will piece by piece learn that it could be them too. That fear means control. To be subject to this arrogance towards life will hopefully get a few of the sofa. God bless her and him that dare, the world is watching you hang in the balance. The well-being of your children and loved ones comes to question and at that point some of us will be forever immortalised, either for feeding or defying the wolves of this eerily completely broadcasted fascist cycle.
I mean it’s not like anyone was surprised tbh
They’re trying to get a specific guy fired. Focusing on the bigger picture doesn’t accomplish that.
Nothing accomplishes that. We can’t even stop them from killing people on our own soil.
Police brutality in the US has only gone up since the Black Lives Matter protests began
For other parties to spring up, we need to get ballot initiatives going in every state to move away from First Past the Post voting. This only requires getting enough signatures for a ballot initiative in about half of the states, for the other half, writing to your representatives and senators can make a difference. It’s not a fruitless effort either as Alaska and Maine both have managed to move away from First Past the Post voting, which is the main limiting factor preventing other political parties from springing up.
Ranked robin voting, STAR voting, score voting, and even Ranked Choice voting are better than First Past the Post for allowing better representation.
we need to get ballot initiatives going in every state to move away from First Past the Post voting
https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Belling_the_Cat
Americans will look at the gerrymandering, the voter caging, the militant policing of minority voting districts, the Brooks Brothers Riots, Operation Eagle Eye, the SAVE Act, the dismantling of ACORN, the people getting snatched up off the street and disappeared to an El Salvadorian slave camp…
And they’ll think to themselves “If we just changed our ballot to use a ranked scoring model, we could have avoided all of this.”
“If we just changed our ballot to use a ranked scoring model, we could have avoided all of this.”
Yes.
Peaceful revolution was made impossible by the voting system.
Always has been. Only white landowners could originally vote. Just because it was worse in the last doesn’t mean we can do better in the future.
Electoral reform isn’t something to base your campaign on but it is something that every upstart campaign will strategically want to do.
Let’s not be reductionists.
We do have a lot of problems and each of these problems deserve attention and care to in order to stop. Many of the problems are a huge deal as well.
What I am bringing attention to is one of the problems that has gradually led to these other problems arising. It is also a problem that requires mutual effort from individuals in 48 states other than my own.
Our voting system has been a main proponent of what has enabled the echo chamber media environment we have and it is partially what has caused politicians to divide the country. Also, we do not have a voting system in all 50 states that enables other political parties to appear as real alternatives.
We should concern ourselves with multiple problems concurrently as we do not need to just focus on only one problem to fix. Yes, we should protest and bring attention to other issues, but at the same time we can also try to grassroots organize to change the voting system to help prevent things from getting worse or from happening again in the future.
I would even encourage you, if you are not from the US, to push for alternative voting systems like I brought up to prevent similar issues from appearing in your country someday. Specifically I would advocate for ranked robin, STAR, or score over ranked choice as there are some unlikely scenarios where ranked choice can be as bad as FPTP.
If we had a different voting system, we very well might not have been in this situation. As other people that normally avoid voting at all, because they hate the two party system, may have come out to vote. Hell, they could have even voted their favorite choice at their first option, but put a second choice as a backup if their favorite candidate did not win.
If people really want faster change politically, then they should move from the deepest red and deepest blue states to more purple states. At least then their votes will have an immediate impact on shifting the power balance away from the coin flip, where land has more power than people. They should look at voting maps ahead of time before they move as well, so that they are not necessarily gerrymandered out of a vote.
If people really want faster change politically, then they should move from the deepest red and deepest blue states to more purple states.
How does that remove them from the media system and the economic incentives that shape their politics? How does that impede state legislatures that can pack and crack districts in a matter of weeks, after residents have spent decades redistributing themselves?
They should look at voting maps ahead of time before they move as well
Voting maps are redrawn on a whim. What would moving halfway across Texas change when we have districts that snake from Houston to San Antonio and Austin to Dallas?
It gives more weight to their vote. It doesn’t change their situation by itself inherently, but if enough people make these types of moves it could shift the political landscape of the country.
Functionally, a lot of legislation is held back by not having enough votes in both the House and Senate, more so the Senate than the House. Personally, I would want to see the House and Senate rebalanced in the future to be a minimum of five representatives and senators per state, but then scaled up based on population. Assuming we have also changed the voting system in each state to be more representative through ranked robin voting, STAR voting, or score voting then each state will do a much better job of actually reflecting the population’s voting preferences.
Functionally, we should build a media system that people want to engage in. Changing the voting system is a core part of changing the media system as well. As you risk alienating potential voters if you demonize the other side, this would at the very least move politics aware from hyper-partisanship.
To change the media ecosystem, we need the Fairness Doctrine back and expanded to social media. This can happen to some extent on the state level, but we functionally need it on the federal level to see a lasting impact. Democrats/progressives need a majority of seats in the House and Senate to even attempt to pass something like the Fairness Doctrine. Ideally, you would want a 3-5 seat majority in the Senate and at least 10 seat majority in the House to pass a majority of the legislation you want to pass. You need a 10 seat majority in the Senate if you want your legislation to be filibuster proofed.
Economic incentives reward more left leaning politics imo. Left leaning politics is good for the people and good for businesses as well in the long run.
It depends on the state if we’re talking about legislatures that have a big enough majority that they can change the district maps quickly enough to disenfranchise voters. Those new maps usually need to be approved by the courts though. If the courts deem the new maps are gerrymandered, they can at least force the election to be off the old map used in the previous election. I would recommend doing research ahead of time if your goal is to make a voter impact. Encouraging others in your community to turn out to vote can make a difference as well.
Moving to a purple state or a disenfranchised state/district could impact future elections. While maps can be redrawn, those maps need to be approved by the courts to be able to be used. The reason I mention researching ahead of time is because you will be a new arrival in the state, the legislature doesn’t have a record necessarily of how you personally will vote. Even if they do, then you could be in a sea of voters from other political parties. Your vote can make a difference still on the city level, school board elections level, governor level, and the federal level. The state level is the most likely to be affected by gerrymandering, but you can try to not group to a left leaning area that’s easier for legislators to gerrymander out.
Moving to a purple state or a disenfranchised state/district could impact future elections.
Not when enfranchisement is dictated by the entrenched government.
Functionally, moving to a purple state makes a notable difference. The reason the Michigan Supreme Court race recently mattered so much was because of the courts confirming potentially gerrymandered maps. If enough people move to purple states that they shifted blue, then it could impact Federal elections which could potentially impose legislation against gerrymandering at a federal level. They could even potentially withhold federal funding, in some instances, should states refuse to use non-gerrymandered maps.
the Michigan Supreme Court race recently mattered
Firstly, I think you’re talking about the Wisconsin SC. Secondly, that remains to be seen. Thirdly, Wisconsin’s Senators illustrate the problem with this hypothesis - they seem capable of electing both Republican and Democrat Senators (and Governors) depending on the winds of the political moment.
Moving to Wisconsin won’t tilt the state blue because you’ll be exposed to all the same socio-economic forces everyone else in Wisconsin is enduring.
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why would they, %90 of democrats also think that Israel is just conducting military operations against terrorists and not mass slaughtering civilians or destroying civil areas as a part of their genocide and ethnic cleansing plan
According to Israeli polls, Dems support of israel is about 33%. Gallup polls say Democrat 21% compared to Republican 75%.
Total support of Israel in the USA is 46% and support of a two state solution is 55% with only 31% opposed and 14% no opinion. Independents and Republicans both have more favorable views of Israel than Democrats. As for support of an independent Palestinian state, despite being contradictory with the previous poll question, Democrats are in favor at 76% compared with 53% of independents and 41% of Republicans support a Palestinian state but 49% opposed.
Despite this, the Republican administration is supporting a Single State Solution in which Israel takes all, just as they did in the previous Trump administration.
that is 14 out of about 50 so lets say %70 if you really want
Still only 72% and it increased to 19 in another vote later on totaling 62% support of Israel. Very recently the House passed a motion to block another billion dollar sale to Israel, and they also reduced or restricted trade several times under the Biden admin to the point that Netanyahu came to speak to them and beg for more weapons.
Biden himself is one of the most outspoken supporters of Israel, but he withheld large bombs purchased by Israel in fears that Netanyahu would use them on Rafah.
You’re talking about politicians, they’re talking about voter opinion. Why would you think those numbers would be correlated?
“God is the Greatest. Death to America. Death to Israel. Curse be upon the Jews. Victory for Islam” -The Houthi Militia Slogan
I agree we need a new opposition party but it cannot be lead by the kinds of clowns who are so poorly educated that they think that the Houthi are the victims here. Those racist assclowns started the civil war that has been killing Yemenis for years now. Even Iran is telling them to stop attacking ships.
“they’re bad guys, so it’s ok to level apartment buildings full of civilians” is the kind of reasoning that Americans love to employ against non white countries, but would get real unhappy if it was employed against them
Hey look a .ml account promoting racism!
Challenge lemmy world: trying to stay a whole day without spotting war crime apologia.
Impossible.
And yet Ansarallah holds the moral high ground because they oppose genocide and we sponsor it. Sucks doesn’t it?
As they started a civil war and regularly steal the aide for non-combatants they don’t have a moral high ground.
We bombed civilian water supplies and infrastructure which led to over 300K dead. Far worse than the official figures from Gaza. No, we do not have the moral high ground to criticize the houthis. We are in fact more amoral and bloodthirsty than them. 👊🇺🇸🔥
We did not kill 300k in Yemen.
The actions of the USA can be unacceptable without making the criminality of the Houthi acceptable.
Anyone arguing that there is any moral high ground for the Houthi to grab will have to explain how stealing the food out if the hands of starving children is an acceptable action because that’s a common thing for them to do.
We armed the Saudis and provided targeting for them to destroy Yemeni water supplies and other civilian infrastructure. We then also blockaded and starved the people of Yemen which led to +300k dead.
I also don’t trust the accusation that the Ansarallah deliberately starved their own people when it comes from the nation causing the food shortage in the first place. Its far more likely that they seized aide to distribute themselves to maintain loyalty. Not a moral practice but I’ve only ever said that we are worse.
Kill the jingoist in your head.
Ok so the Saudis purchased arms from is that they used to attack the Houti after the Houthi started the civil war and after they attacked KSA.
You are assigning the total dead in the Yemeni Civil War to Saudi Arabia and not the party that literally started the war, why? How can the people drawn into the war be responsible for all the dead and not the party that started the conflict? It is a civil war after all.
I would suggest you look into the history of this conflict since you keep claiming the perpetrators of the conflict are somehow victims.
The civil war started with the Arab spring the ousting of the president and the installation of a Saudi puppet against the wishes of the original protestors. Ansarallah formed as a response to that and even got the support of the original president. They have shown more interest in the well being of Yemeni people than Saudi Arabia and their genocidal campaign against the people of Yemen. Low bar for sure but easily cleared.
The US has backed KSA to the hilt in the conflict just as they have with Israel in Gaza. In a way even more so because the Saudi’s are too fucking stupid to even select their own targets or refuel their jets. We’ve been basically holding their hands the entire way and they still lost.
Like Jesus Christ buddy, I’m an american. If I hadn’t read up on this topic before I’d be giving you the bog standard jingoism that radiates this country.
They aren’t bombing “the houthis”, scumbag, they’re bombing civilians
Yeah but you know “whatabout …”
Apparently two things cannot be bad at the same time.
And Im not saying they cannot be. Im saying I don’t want any opposition to be run by folks who are so undereducated that they think there is something wrong with America attacking a group of people who have “Death to America” in their slogan and are attacking innocent sailors in commercial shipping lanes.
These people have been having American and British bombs dropped on then for 10 years by now, via the planes of America and Britain’s ally, Saudi Arabia.
WTF do you expect from them other than hatred for America?!
Do you expect some kind of thankfulness for the whole “I might be randomly killed tomorrow when the bus I’m traveling in gets hit by an American bomb”? Because that would be like expecting Americans to be thankful to Al-Queda after 9/11 (only worse so because far more civilians have been killed in Yemen with American bombs by America’s ally than in 9/11) rather than hate the hell out of the fuckers that killing innocent people.
America’s actions in Yemen have basically been the equivalent of helping Nazi Germany bomb the shit out of France and the Résistance Française and then shifting to directly bombing the Résistance themselves with little care for collateral damage by using “they hate us” as an excuse.
It’s like the whole Iran situation:
- American Politicians: “They hate us for our freedoms”
- Iranians: *Hate America because after Iranians rebelled against and overthrew a bloody dictator - the Shah - Americans overthrew Iran’s first Democratic government and reinstated the Shah, who only came down after a bloody Revolution were the meanest and most extreme types of all - the ultra-religious - overthrew him again.*
And ditto for Palestine which is very much a similar situation but even worse.
I mean, you gotta be quite the tribalist muppet or extremely insular (or, more commonly, both) to keep on believing the same decades old style of excuse from American Politicians for killing people in far away lands which itself justifies giving tons of taxpayer money to military suppliers for weapons and ammo (the real objective) instead of putting it in Healthcare or Education, because there is no way you can’t put 2 and 2 together otherwise.
They had the slogan before the war.
The Houthi are 100% without question the reason why there is a civil war in Yemen. They started the war.
They aren’t doing this for solidarity abd even Iran has told them to fucking stop
Whenever I see this argument, I am stunned by the lack of self awareness.
We bomb them, so it’s natural that they want to bomb us.
They bomb us and we need to accept it and self-flagellate over past wrongs.
You hold a double standard and a stupid one at that, considering how much more we can do to them than they can do to us.
The premise is, frankly, racist. You treat the Arabs as if they’re too stupid to think in the long term, to look beyond short term retaliation.
When and how exactly have the Houtis bombed American soil?
In the post you’re replying to I literally made the point that these people being angry at America is the same as Americans being angry at Al-Queda for 9/11, so I literally treated as equally understandable that both people are angry at those who bombed them, which is the very opposite of what you claim I meant.
So you’re replying to whatever fantasy is going on in your mind rather than my post (which said the exact opposite of the fantasy you spun claiming that was my take), which means all those comments of yours about “lack of self awareness”, “holding a stupid double standard” and “that being a racism premise” apply to the only source of that imaginary “argument” you were criticizing, You.
So it’s okay to try and kill Americans so long as they aren’t in America?
You are still arguing that we shouldn’t be bombing them, despite the fact they’re bombing us and arguing that their bombing us is understandable because we’re bombing them, even though we’re only bombing them because they’re bombing us.
When and how exactly have the Houthis bombed American soil?
(You seemed to have forgotten to answer the very first line of my post during this goalpost moving maneuver of yours)
Further, when exactly did he Houthis “try and kill Americans” way back over a decade ago to cause America to start providing Saudi Arabia with bombs to bomb them with and keep doing so for a whole decade in the full knowledge of how they were being used?
You seem to be holding the “racist premise” that when America unilaterally acts in ways that kill non-Americans, those non-Americans aren’t entitled to fight back against America and its interests, which is literally you “holding a stupid double standard” and displaying “lack of self-awareness”.
Why isn’t the US doing anything to stop the genocide in Gaza? “Death to America” is nothing compared to enabling a genocide which both the current and past administrations are guilty of. Enforcing a naval blockade on Israel is hardly criminal when Israel is intentionally starving and slaughtering Palestinians.
But even if the Houthis are as bad as you claim, even worse than the US or Israel, how does that justify targeting hospitals and civilians?
Why isn’t the US doing anything to stop the genocide in Gaza?
That’s not America’s job and it isn’t as if the Houthi are doing anything other than lipservice.
“Death to America” is nothing compared to enabling a genocide
it’s a great reason for the USA to not see them as an ally. Did you really need that explained to you?
You didn’t respond to the part about targeting hospitals and civilians. The moral conclusion here is the same as with Israel’s targeting of civilians in their so-called “war against Hamas.” Hamas and the Houthis are terrorist organizations that grew out of victimhood and justify hatred against their oppressors in the name of resistance. They are victims, but because they aren’t perfectly moral in their resistance you condemn their entire people to indiscriminate bombing. The saddest thing about this is that it won’t eliminate the terrorist groups, only bolster their support and make them more resentful.
And the largest terrorist organization - the US military - will continue its campaign of terror, creating ever more.
The Houthi are the reason why the civil war in Yemen started. They are not victims they are the perpetrator of crimes against everyone else in Yemen. They are the victimizers and you seem to not have any understanding of this. Have you never looked into the Yemeni Civil War and why it is called such?
Hamas and The Houthi are entirely unrelated groups with entirely different goals. You should not conflate them. The Houthi will sell ypu arms, likely will not sell you drugs or kids. Hamas will sell you arms, drugs and kids because they utilize a vast criminal network to finance their war while the Houthi get funds from Iran.
That’s because all of that is immaterial to my point which is that any opposition party in the USA should not be lead by people who think the Houthi Militia are worth supporting.
The Houthi have no moral high ground in a war they started just like America could have no high ground in the invasion of Iraq in 2003.
That’s because all of that is immaterial to my point which is that any opposition party in the USA should not be lead by people who think the Houthi Militia are worth supporting.
That’s a very convenient principle to have when opposing the indiscriminate bombing of civilians is conflated with support for terrorism. Just because I don’t think we should be bombing them doesn’t mean I support the Houthis, and I don’t have to align myself with them to acknowledge that they are right to enact an economic blockade against Israel to pressure them to stop their genocide.
They’re not attacking the houthis, scumbag. They’re bombing civilians.
See this is why the world hates you guys.
Death to america
I am in agreement with you, my sentiments were directed to the original poster.
Do you want to win an election or do you want to be morally superior?
Everyone in America heard the Republicans go on and on and on about Hilary’s emails. That’s where they are vulnerable.
Shilling for a 3rd Party at this late date is silly at best.
Late… date? Does the 24/7 campaign cycle mean we can never discuss how we can get the unrepresented in our country involved in the political process?
No. It means that it’s impossible to organize a viable 3rd Party before the next election cycle.
Do you have any idea what it take to get a candidate listed in all 50 states? Or how much money it would take to get a candidates name out?
Get back to me when you have an actual plan to start a3rd Party. Include the names of the candidates you’ll run for every House seat.
We’ve known that people don’t vote rationally in a democracy for almost three thousand years. Why do you keep expecting this to change?
If you want to win elections you must both appear morally superior and promise material gains. Making morally bankrupt rationalizations just turns the masses away.
Every time someone made the argument “yes we’re sponsoring genocide, but Trump will be worse” you lost votes. You just made people more nihilistic.
And what is the great alternative?
It’s not like you can create a Third Party in the next 24 months; the Left had four years to make sure Bernie got nominated in 2020 and they blew it.
Stop screaming about the Dems are until you have an actual plan to stop Trump.
The alternative is what every progressive has been screaming about for over a decade now: Actually campaign on popular progressive economic reforms. Actually appeal to the base of the democratic party instead of chasing centrist republicans.
And stop repeating this abuser mentality of constantly lowering our standards. That depresses voter turnout better than the Republicans could dream. The masses don’t vote unless they are optmisitic.
The alternative is what every progressive has been screaming about for over a decade now:
Thank you for proving my point. Screaming for a decade and zero progress.
Insanity is doing the same thing over and over and expecting a different result.
What an insane reversal of historical reality: Both Obama and Biden ran on promising progressive economic reform and won. They dissappointed when it came time to deliver but they still won.
Clinton and Harris explicitly didn’t promise anything other than being “not Trump” and ate colossal shit on live TV.
So where are you getting this idea that progressive economic reform is not electable? Is it because it fails in democratic primaries? Is it because the party itself tries to stifle it?
Your comment perfectly represents the moral bankruptcy of the Democratic party. The obsession with elections and compromising, even when the midterms are almost two years away.
A proper opposition party would hammer the substance and put the institutional failures on full display. If you don’t have principles, there’s no point to winning power anyway.
By your logic, no one who opposed Hitler should have taken aid from the capitalist and racist Americans or the British empire.
Look at the real world. the GOP is using every dirty trick imaginable, but we should lose with dignity and honor intact.
Have you considered that maybe moral bankruptcy isn’t the most effective way to win elections, at least not if you’re presenting as the slightly-less-right-wing option? The Democratic party is broken, nobody is buying their shit any more, and that’s why someone like Trump can get elected. There is no opposition party. It’s not a problem that will get fixed by ignoring it.
What aid lmao the USSR defeated Hitler.
The American rushed to Berlin because communism was more scary than nazism
I love the way you write off all the Asians who were getting killed by the Japanese. To say nothing of the US Merchant Marines who died delivering food and weapons to Murmansk. Stalin was the Donald Trump of his time.
They were getting killed by a fascist ideology that america brought out with their gunboat diplomacy.
Do you want to win an election? Because what the DNC is currently doing hasn’t worked very well for that.
Your far left candidate has lost how many times in a row now? Maybe you helping the far right will keep that losing streak going as your country’s politicians recognize the far left will just keep losing. If you want to stir to the left, you don’t go right, like your country just did this election.
What far left candidate?
The left that’s too far from winning.
Yeah, they ran a Black woman and got fewer votes than the White guy.
Almost like the Progressives stayed home.
Yeah, it’s almost like progressives aren’t interested in identity politics, and stayed home when the supposedly-leftist party told them to shut up.
Yeah, Progressives stayed home in 1968 because they couldn’t support Humphrey and we got Nixon.
They couldn’t support Hilary and we got Trump.
They couldn’t support Biden/Harris and we got Trump two.
So much progress.
Progressives are simultaneously not worth it for the democrats to represent, but also are 100% to blame when blue conservatives lose to red ones?
Maybe when people think literally Hitler is better than you, you should take a step back and try to figure out what you’re doing wrong.
Yeah, Progressives stayed home in 1968 because they couldn’t support Humphrey and we got Nixon.
Agent Orange is a chemical herbicide and defoliant, one of the tactical uses of Rainbow Herbicides. It was used by the U.S. military as part of its herbicidal warfare program, Operation Ranch Hand,[1] during the Vietnam War from 1961 to 1971.
Jee I wonder why. You guys already liked to kill brown people back then
She’s a token
Do you really think calling them hypocrites is gonna work when it hasn’t the 5000 other times? Dems don’t need to go after republican voters or smear republican. It’s been shown that obviously does not work. They need to be a party people want to vote for.
I’ve been saying it for a while now.
In WW2 the most progressive people on the planet lined up to get help from the racist Americans and the British empire because they saw Hitler was worse.
If you need to be coaxed into fighting Trump, you’re not anti-fascist, you’re desperate for attention.
BTW, I donated to Bernie in 2016, 2020, and 2024. It was the Progressives who failed me, not the Dems.
I’m mostly just confused by what you’re even trying to say about my post here? I said stop doing what doesn’t work and start doing something good? And your response is… uh… hitler was bad? I don’t?
Also, if you think the dems have nothing to do with progressives losing, then lol.
They need to be a party people want to vote for.
I’m responding to that idea.
If you need to be coaxed into voting against Trump you’re not anti-fascist, you’re desperate for attention.
And progressives like AOC and Omar managed to win inside the Dem Party.
Like I said, I’d love to be able to vote for an actual Progressive. Too bad they keep dropping the ball.
To think progressives are dropping the ball, but not the DNC, who has sued 3rd parties off ballots, pushed back as hard as they can against progressives(including spending DNC money against progressives in primaries & running attack ads on 3rd party), certainly is a DNC style take.
To say “not being trump” should be enough is fucking wild. That is the epitome of democracy huh? “You can’t vote for a good candidate, or one that would represent your ideals. You must vote based on who you hate most! You have to support the system that forces this! it is good! and balanced!”
I’ll pass dude.
I don’t want to win no election. I want Americans to stop commiting war crime.
Honestly these clowns were quick to throw foreigners under the trolley in exchange for their safety. They still lost lmao
I don’t care what happen to them
The lemmy world challenge. Try browsing the website without spotting straight up war crime apologia for an entire day (impossible)
They resisted against the brutal Saudi puppet government, and have been resisting genocide ever since.
Yemen has been undergoing a US-Saudi backed genocide for years
Guterres put the crisis in stark perspective, emphasizing the near complete lack of security for the Yemeni people. More than 22 million people out of a total population of 28 million are in need of humanitarian aid and protection. Eighteen million people lack reliable access to food; 8.4 million people “do not know how they will obtain their next meal.”
As of February 2018, according to the Office of the High Commissioner for Human Rights, the coalition had killed 6,000 people in airstrikes and wounded nearly 10,000 more.
Yet, according to the OHCHR report, these counts are conservative. Tens of thousands of Yemenis have also died from causes related to the war. According to Save the Children, an estimated 85,000 children under five may have died since 2015, with more than 50,000 child deaths in 2017 alone from hunger and related causes.
Besides Saudi Arabia, the coalition attacking Yemen includes the United Arab Emirates, Egypt, Morocco, Jordan, Sudan, Kuwait and Bahrain. Qatar was part of the coalition but is no longer.
Based on the information available to it using open sources, YDP reports that two-thirds of the coalition’s bombing attacks have been against non-military and unknown targets. The coalition isn’t accidentally attacking civilians and civilian infrastructure – it’s doing it deliberately.
The air and naval blockade, in effect since March 2015, “is essentially using the threat of starvation as a bargaining tool and an instrument of war,” according to the UN panel of experts on Yemen.
The coalition’s genocide in Yemen would not be possible without the complicity of the U.S. This has been a bipartisan presidential effort, covering both the Obama and Trump administrations.
U.S. arms are being used to kill Yemenis and destroy their country. In 2016, well after the coalition began its genocidal assault on Yemen, four of the top five recipients of U.S. arms sales were members of the coalition.
The U.S. has also provided the coalition with logistical support, including mid-air refueling, targeting advice and support, intelligence, expedited munitions resupply and maintenance.
The ‘Curse upon the Jews’ part of the slogan is completely unacceptable, any conflation of Zionism and Judaism is. There are plenty of things the Houthis do that is also completely unacceptable, utilizing child soldiers is another major one. There are plenty of things they deserve to be criticized on, and human rights organizations do a great job documenting and communicating those atrocities.
This isn’t about good guys or bad guys. This is about an entire population subjected to a genocide. There are plenty of reasons to not like the Houthis, but that doesn’t change the reality that they only exist as a resistance to the ongoing genocide. The point isn’t that the Houthis are good, it’s that the genocide, facilitated by the US and our Ally Saudi Arabia, is significantly worse by multiple magnitudes.
The root cause of the problem is still the genocide, that’s a much bigger concern, especially to the people of Yemen, than to stop or reform the Houthis themselves. They can only be addressed in a realistic way, by the people of Yemen, once the genocide ends.
The Houthi literally started the civil war when they broke the coalition government they were a part of and attacked the capital.
The Houthi are not freedom fighters looking to remove an oppressive government. They are in fact looking to replace who is wearing the jackboot on the throats of the population nothing more.
I’m not a fan of the Houthis, but these people are really the equivalent of American guntoting Y’alliban. They like their guns and they like their free speech and they hate foreign countries propping up dictators who oppress them.
The slogan eventually became a sign of public protest against the dictatorship of Yemeni President Ali Abdullah Saleh… The Houthi movement officially adopted the slogan in the wake of the widely condemned 2003 U.S. invasion of Iraq. This brought the movement on a collision course with the government, as the government maintained its official pro-American politics despite public opposition. The slogan was outlawed. The Houthis refused to discard it, arguing that the constitution of Yemen protected free speech. By 2004, crackdowns against both the slogan as well as the Houthi movement intensified. Many Houthis were imprisoned and even tortured for having used it.
They like their guns and they like their free speech and they hate foreign countries propping up dictators who oppress them.
That is a grossly inaccurate representation of who the Houthi are. The Houthi Militia are NOT freedom fighters as they are looking to oppress other Yemeni ethnic groups.
This isn’t a case of good ol boys standing up to imperialism, rather it is a group of racist bigots attacking boats that are typically not involved in any conflict.
Where did I call them freedom fighters?
I certainly don’t think the Y’alliban are freedom fighters.
I am no fan of the Houthis, but you can’t just ignore that they were also oppressed by a dictator propped up by the USA and that they suffered one of the worst famines in the 21st century thanks to the USA and Saudi-Arabia.
They are Yemeni Nationalists propped up by Iran.
No one has clean hands in this conflict.
They were part of a coalition government that they abandoned when it wouldn’t cede them greater control
thanks to the USA and Saudi-Arabia.
This is the important fact to remember about Yemen. The US has been helping SA starve this country at least since 2016. Probably longer.
You should look up what aide orgs on the ground are saying because they universally blame the Houthi and KSA for stealing aid from non-combatants.
Ah yea kinda like hamas is stealing all the food and that’s why palestinians are starving?
Propaganda
I’m sure that has nothing to do with a near decade of forced impoverishment and starvation.
The Houthi started the civil war when the coalition government refused to cede them more authority. They regularly steal aide intended for non-combatants.
There’s no version of the Houthi’s suffering that isn’t entirely derived from their actions.
This reads as sarcastic but given your prior stance you seem completely serious for some reason.
They’ve observed that being anti-war didn’t work, so they switched tactics. You want them to keep beating the same dead horse?
Opposition to the Iraq War is why I voted Democratic. Supporting the Genocide in Gaza is why I stopped voting for them. But I am sure they did the math and determined that votes like mine didn’t matter.
Ah so you’re the one.
Not even significant enough to be a statistic
Not alone, but if you convince a few hundred thousand people in a few key states to not vote against a dictator…
How is it my fault that the Democrats decided genocide was the way to go? We tried outreach, we tried talking to our representative and congressperson, and not just me. We were formally from the top-down pushed aside and ignored.
“We also didn’t create a new category for Gaza responses out of fear that category would be leaked. Instead we were told to mark them as ‘no response,’” the organizer said, faulting top Harris campaign leaders for failing to address the issue. “The only ‘clowns’ out there are those who were in senior leadership and decided to abdicate on this issue, who silenced a Palestinian speaker at the DNC, and who told us to ignore it every time a voter asked us about Gaza.”
What difference does it make if the genocide was being committed by Democrats or Republicans? It is the same to me.
When the hell did the Democrats ever try being anti-war? Are you talking about George McGovern in 1972? Because they’ve been rabid hawks for as long as I’ve been alive.
They’ve observed that being anti-war didn’t work, so they switched tactics.
When, in 1980? Because that’s the last time the Dem leadership was antiwar and a SHITLOAD has changed in the 45 years since.
You want them to keep beating the same dead horse?
The dead horse they’ve been beating is unconditional support of a fascist apartheid regime, which was one of the big reasons why they lost to the most unpopular presidential candidate in history the second time.
Another case of equine carcass abuse that cost them is their insistence on “considered voting for the GOP but might not” is the most important demographic and their stubbornly ignoring their own base and stated principles as a result.
TBH I think Israel was heading in a good direction under PM Rabin, but he got assassinated and Netanyahu has spent decades in power despite his criminal charges.
When have they been antiwar lmao
Anti-war coalition is what gave Democrats a solid majority to Obama. He kept at the wars and eroded the coalition until the RNC could field Trump and win.
And Obama was criticized 24/7 for keeping an active military campaign the entire 8 years and keeping Guantanamo Bay open, despite his spreading out of US troops and signing deals with the various nations towards the purpose of strengthening of middle eastern borders and improving quality of life in the region with agriculture (Feed the Future Initiative), trade, and hospitals being the only true path to peace and prosperity.
Even then, war will continue to exist in the Middle East so long as USA, EU, Russia, and China are all backing different governments militarily in the region such as Israel with the west and Iran with the east.
Only thing American voters cared about was American soldiers dying. Majority of Americans didn’t even remember or cared that a million Iraqis died.
I heard the phrase ‘glass em all’ more than I heard sympathetic sentiment for the victims of war, at any rate.
I want them to stop being anti-poor.
I don’t care if their policies look like they support the poor when they can’t ever get anything passed that forces the rich to make concessions
Brace for impact, folks, because there isn’t one.
“Well, when you say ‘working’—are they stopping the Houthis? No,” Biden said in response to a reporter’s question. “Are they gonna continue? Yes.”
Feels like half of Lemmy was simping for Warren Buffet’s son last week.
Maybe for you. I didn’t know he had a son.
Glad to hear that you aren’t one of them. Billionaires are all bastards.
