The difference between such a machine and a worker is that the worker has the power to withhold their labor and a machine (or animal) does not. An animal will never show solidarity with the workers’ movement.
I’m not saying that animal rights are bad. I’m generally in favor of them. But they have nothing to do with Marxism. In fact, I would call any call to have solidarity with a group incapable of or unwilling to have solidarity with the general workers’ movement to be a form of Ultra-Leftism.
And I’d appreciate people not over-extending this analogy. Some workers are queer, or immigrants, or disabled. Most are female or colored. These are all people who have the agency and incentive to show solidarity with the Socialist movement. Animals have neither agency nor incentive.
That’s not to say that there is no Marxist justification for working with or even making concessions to Vegans. They make up a significant part of the general left-wing movement and animal rights are a bargaining chip that may be used to gain their support when it is strategically necessary. And, again, I am in favor of some animal rights - I just recognize that that is coming from the moral side of my brain and not the scientific side.
The way “animal rights” framed as in agriculture, how our food-systems in both logistics and livestock-care are handled by the workers absolutely has importance to in a Marxist view…bird flu is one pertinent example I could think of.
Is this purposeful ignorance of this question, or are you waiting to get to it? Because you are quick to label things as “ultra-leftist” and act begrudging on concessions towards Vegans and acting like having a sober analysis of our current food-systems and deciding that the things we consume and their relation to the workers is a primary concern isn’t reasonable? Or am I misinterpreting your dismissive attitude?
In addition, you danced around the question. “a machine (or animal) does not.” Suppose if a machine did gain undeniable consciousness…is that not relevant to Marxist discussion because it does not yet show solidarity? A new life-form created under an economic system that would immediately be entitled to it’s labor and life in totality? There’s nothing there to analyze and that’s over-extension?
Also, unrelated, what does “Plague Rat Settler” mean, exactly?
The difference between such a machine and a worker is that the worker has the power to withhold their labor and a machine (or animal) does not. An animal will never show solidarity with the workers’ movement.
I’m not saying that animal rights are bad. I’m generally in favor of them. But they have nothing to do with Marxism. In fact, I would call any call to have solidarity with a group incapable of or unwilling to have solidarity with the general workers’ movement to be a form of Ultra-Leftism.
And I’d appreciate people not over-extending this analogy. Some workers are queer, or immigrants, or disabled. Most are female or colored. These are all people who have the agency and incentive to show solidarity with the Socialist movement. Animals have neither agency nor incentive.
That’s not to say that there is no Marxist justification for working with or even making concessions to Vegans. They make up a significant part of the general left-wing movement and animal rights are a bargaining chip that may be used to gain their support when it is strategically necessary. And, again, I am in favor of some animal rights - I just recognize that that is coming from the moral side of my brain and not the scientific side.
Is this purposeful ignorance of this question, or are you waiting to get to it? Because you are quick to label things as “ultra-leftist” and act begrudging on concessions towards Vegans and acting like having a sober analysis of our current food-systems and deciding that the things we consume and their relation to the workers is a primary concern isn’t reasonable? Or am I misinterpreting your dismissive attitude?
In addition, you danced around the question. “a machine (or animal) does not.” Suppose if a machine did gain undeniable consciousness…is that not relevant to Marxist discussion because it does not yet show solidarity? A new life-form created under an economic system that would immediately be entitled to it’s labor and life in totality? There’s nothing there to analyze and that’s over-extension?
Also, unrelated, what does “Plague Rat Settler” mean, exactly?
edit: Nice. A downvote and no response.