How about instead of saying I should have spoken up about a man groping me, you say, “he shouldn’t have groped you.”
How about both? It’s infantilizing for you to suggest I don’t understand a basic principle like “assault is bad”. Of course he shouldn’t have groped you. That was bad. That’s just a baseline, floor-level understanding that we should both agree on.
If you guys would start doing your part to police one another
Well, for one thing, we don’t know which guys are doing this. Even if, as you suggest, the burden should fall solely on men to stop other men (a bit of a problematic viewpoint in itself), we can’t stop it if we don’t know it’s happening. Guys don’t brag to each other about sexual assault. We just don’t talk about sex in general. “Locker room talk” is and always has been a myth. Women talk with each other. Men don’t.
We cannot read your mind and know that any particular guy has done anything bad to you. You have to say something. And if you don’t, the only other option is for everyone to constantly be asking every woman if they’re being assaulted. Like that old Verizon commercial: “are you being assaulted now? Are you being assaulted now?” which is just toxic and awful and paranoid and massively damaging to everyone’s mental health.
I can 100% understand just not wanting to deal with it. Running away and then never speaking about it, and avoiding that guy for the rest of your life is much easier than opening a can of worms.
But if you do that, you have to take responsibility for doing that. Don’t pretend “not my problem, Men should be fixing everything”.
I never said I think this should be a men fix it problem, I just think both sexes should be working on noticing it, calling out behavior, and fixing it. I’m my experience, women are constantly vigilant, and men are inconsistently vigilant, and much much more likely to give other men the benefit of the doubt regardless of what women say.
I’m not asking anyone to read my mind. If you think men don’t talk about their minor sexual assaults because men don’t talk period, I guess you just have a very quiet friend group. I have absolutely heard men talk about this stuff at multiple work places, not even to necessarily brag, just because they don’t Even realize what they’re doing is wrong. The number of stories I heard at college alone is gross and frightening.
I’d like men to call out other men/ their friends, because women fear physical retaliation for calling out this behavior: any man exhibiting this behavior has already proven they don’t believe women should be treated with respect, care, or boundaries. If men call out their friends, likely the consequence is a strained relationship.
How about both? It’s infantilizing for you to suggest I don’t understand a basic principle like “assault is bad”. Of course he shouldn’t have groped you. That was bad. That’s just a baseline, floor-level understanding that we should both agree on.
Well, for one thing, we don’t know which guys are doing this. Even if, as you suggest, the burden should fall solely on men to stop other men (a bit of a problematic viewpoint in itself), we can’t stop it if we don’t know it’s happening. Guys don’t brag to each other about sexual assault. We just don’t talk about sex in general. “Locker room talk” is and always has been a myth. Women talk with each other. Men don’t.
We cannot read your mind and know that any particular guy has done anything bad to you. You have to say something. And if you don’t, the only other option is for everyone to constantly be asking every woman if they’re being assaulted. Like that old Verizon commercial: “are you being assaulted now? Are you being assaulted now?” which is just toxic and awful and paranoid and massively damaging to everyone’s mental health.
I can 100% understand just not wanting to deal with it. Running away and then never speaking about it, and avoiding that guy for the rest of your life is much easier than opening a can of worms.
But if you do that, you have to take responsibility for doing that. Don’t pretend “not my problem, Men should be fixing everything”.
I never said I think this should be a men fix it problem, I just think both sexes should be working on noticing it, calling out behavior, and fixing it. I’m my experience, women are constantly vigilant, and men are inconsistently vigilant, and much much more likely to give other men the benefit of the doubt regardless of what women say.
I’m not asking anyone to read my mind. If you think men don’t talk about their minor sexual assaults because men don’t talk period, I guess you just have a very quiet friend group. I have absolutely heard men talk about this stuff at multiple work places, not even to necessarily brag, just because they don’t Even realize what they’re doing is wrong. The number of stories I heard at college alone is gross and frightening.
I’d like men to call out other men/ their friends, because women fear physical retaliation for calling out this behavior: any man exhibiting this behavior has already proven they don’t believe women should be treated with respect, care, or boundaries. If men call out their friends, likely the consequence is a strained relationship.