Reflecting on his presidency, Obama posed the question, “Well, was there something else I could have done?”

Former President Barack Obama cautioned against ignoring the complexities of the Israel-Hamas war, warning that “all of us are complicit.”

“If you want to solve the problem, then you have to take in the whole truth. And you then have to admit nobody’s hands are clean, that all of us are complicit to some degree,” he said in an excerpted interview with Pod Save America released Saturday.

    • jimbo@lemmy.world
      1815·
      1 year ago

      I don’t see where Obama said anything about things being proportionate, and I don’t know what “proportionate” has to do with the fact that heinous acts have been taken by both sides.

      • coffee_poops@sh.itjust.worksEnglish
        2112·
        1 year ago

        There’s no “both sides” to this anymore. Almost ten times the people have been killed by Israel with almost all of them being civilians.

        • Serinus@lemmy.world
          178·
          1 year ago

          How many times can you poke a bear before it decides it’s done?

          It’s not an excuse. Israel’s actions are absolutely disproportionate. I can argue either side, but that’s exactly the point. Nobody’s hands are clean. You don’t have to condone Israel’s actions to understand they were provoked.

          There can never be peace without both sides admitting some fault. Two wrongs don’t make a right. 9061 wrongs don’t cancel out 1400 wrongs. That’s not how any of this works.

          What do you suggest Israel does? What do you suggest Palestinians in Gaza do? Until you think a little bit deeper, you can’t just say dismissive, pithy things that only favor one side.

          This isn’t a sports team. You can’t just pick a side and cheer for them no matter what.

        • jimbo@lemmy.world
          1410·
          1 year ago

          There’s no “both sides” to this anymore. Almost ten times the people have been killed by Israel with almost all of them being civilians.

          Israel has killed ten times the people compared to who? Oh yeah, the other “side”, who also has killed a bunch of civilians.

          • coffee_poops@sh.itjust.worksEnglish
            54·
            1 year ago

            I’m not talking a pro-Hamas position. I’m taking a pro-child position. You don’t give a fuck about people though.

            • trafficnab@lemmy.ca
              2·
              1 year ago

              In a complete shock to everyone, the guy with the tankie name is all for the deaths of innocent civilians

              At least they wear it like a badge of honor, making it easy to identify and ignore them

                • trafficnab@lemmy.ca
                  0·
                  1 year ago

                  We should give him the benefit of the doubt, maybe he’s only advocating for the ~25% (2m people or so) of the Israeli civilian population that’s not native born to be killed? Or maybe only the ~500k Israeli civilians who are >75 years old that were alive to see the 1948 war and creation of the state? Maybe some combination of the two? Surely a tankie can’t be advocating for the genocide of an entire nation?

                  Edit: Oh he messaged me instead of replying? Not sure if that was on accident but:

                  settlers aren’t civilians, only settlers think they’re civilians

                  and you are definitely so good at ignoring when you reply to my comment

                  you libs are a joke and a half ill tell ya

                  No no, you misunderstand me, when I say “ignore” I only mean disregard your opinions, there’s no way I’d miss out on pointing and laughing with everyone else at the genocidal tankies, we have to make sure nobody around here thinks it’s an appropriate opinion to have

                  • MonkeyBusiness@lemmy.one
                    01·
                    1 year ago

                    They DM’d me too, I suspect mods banned him. Given his account is only a few hours old, I don’t get why he’s not just making another one.

    • SpaceCowboy@lemmy.ca
      1312·
      1 year ago

      Terrorists consider civilian casualties to be a scorecard. Hamas benefits when there’s Israeli civilian casualties. Hamas also benefits when there’s Palestinian civilian casualties.

      That’s the whole point of taking hostages isn’t it? To force Israel into a ground campaign which will cause Palestinian civilian casualties.

      The military forces of civilized nations don’t consider civilian casualties to be a victory no matter which side it’s on. They have an objective and need to achieve that objective while minimizing civilian casualties. The objective of the IDF is to free the hostages. They will make an effort to minimize civilian casualties. But they must achieve that objective even while know civilian causalities are a certainty even when they make an to keep those casualties to a minimum.

      This is the nature of war. And this is a war Hamas started. And remember there could be significantly fewer casualties (and a humanitarian ceasefire) if Hamas released the hostages.

      But they won’t do that because their objective is to maximize the number of Palestinian casualties because many people look at those casualties and become angry and want to support them.

      Netanyahu will lose power because of 1400 Israeli deaths. Both Israeli and Palestinian civilian casualties are considered to be a failure by Israelis.

      Both Israeli and Palestinian civilian casualties are considered a success by Hamas. They are psychopaths that know how people react to these numbers.