That is a fair point, I see where you are coming from and I agree on a abstract level.
I guess it’s more that I personally don’t believe the majority of russian want to change. Platitudes about “peace with Ukraine, but also we continue to occupy 20% of your country and continue to eradicate Ukrainian culture/language/identity) in the occupied terroritories” notwithstanding.
Not to be a downer, but I don’t believe access to information is the root cause of russians’ support for genocidal imperialism and authoritarianism.
FWIW, russian language YT channels have been available since 2010, including international services (DW, BBC; in russian) and local opposition leaning channel such as TV Rain (Телеканал Дождь).
For the average russian the fear of shame associated with military defeat and the rejection of the notion “that russia is the greatest culture there is” stand above all other considerations. Even the lives of their own soldiers or the future of their children (the millions of lives they have destroyed in Ukraine, Georgia, Moldova, Syria is not even on their radar).
I am not saying this is true of every single russian, but when 65% [1] to 85% [2] of the population are supportive of genocidal imperialism, this is a society-wide problem and not an issue tied to a single individual or a small group.
[1] Estimates of support for the full scale invasion of Ukraine accounting for preference falsification via list experiments and comparisons with direct polling. With the caveat that the authors of the list experiment believe their methodology under-estimates the true level of support (i.e. it is higher than 65%). [2] Estimates of support for the annexation of Crimea both via list experiments and direct polling (preference falsification with respect to the annexation of Crimea is practically nonexistent even though alleged russian liberals claim otherwise).
Facebook - Zuckerberg and his role in enabling ethnic cleansing in Myanmar
https://www.nytimes.com/2018/04/09/business/facebook-myanmar-zuckerberg.html
How so? And what do you define as “antisemitism” and “antisemitic censorship”?
It seems like the only semi-viable alternative to oligarch run social networks.
I am not American, but the behaviour exhibited by oligarchs such as Zuckerberg/Musk (and these are just the ones that get in the news) is not at all surprising.
Raiffeisen has been “leaving” the russian market for 3 years now.
Don’t be dense. I said I don’t care what language people use in private conversation (even if it happens to be outside or even in between people in a work environment).
I do have issues with promotion of russian culture and language. We have our our state language and our own heroes. No way should we promote imperialist symbols.
Care to address your whitewashing of russian genocidal imperialism and refusal to recognize their responsibility for putin?
What you’re saying is that the people dealing with russian genocidal imperialism should should shut up and get killed and that we do not have the right to point out that russians should not be treated as innocent children and at a strong majority of their society are genuine supporters of genocidal imperialism.
So is this what you believe?
I am not going to engage on russian language in Ukraine. I was pretty clear I have no issues with private use of russian langauge and you somehow come up with “speaking russian in public in Kharkiv” (as a response to me stating you are whitewashing russian crimes, no less). This is borderline russian propaganda.
When you have a 140 million strong country that is mostly populated by genocidal imperialists, you would be a fool to not recognize how their language and culture is used to enable their violent imperialist goals.
Why should I not demand recognition of their genocidal actions in Chechnya in the 90s? I don’t believe they (alleged russian “liberals”) are genuine about their statements on Ukraine, they just don’t have any choice. I am giving you a chance to prove me wrong.
I don’t watch NFKRZ. Show me a video/article where he (or anyone else with a platform) openly states that russian actions in Chechnya in the 90s were genocidal (comparable to killing 7 million russian civilians) and were wrong. Is this really too much to ask?
You are enabling and whitewashing russian genocidal imperialism (in Ukraine, Georgia, Moldova, Chechnya, Syria and multiple African nations) by:
For you, they are always the victims, they are always innocent.
You come up with this discussion on “me denying them education” (what does this even mean?) and you can’t even explain what you mean by the opportunity to educate?
Furthermore, you refuse to outline how this alleged “opportunity to educate” is going to work and why this is a viable approach.
What you’re saying is that the people dealing with russian genocidal imperialism should should shut up and get killed and that we do not have the right to point out that russians should not be treated as innocent children and at a strong majority of their society are genuine supporters of genocidal imperialism.
You’re interpretation of the language component of modern Ukraine aids russian genocidal imperialism. There is no issue with private use of russian language. I actually live here and I speak russian with my family and many of my friends (including folks from Kharkiv). Don’t be coy with me.
I brought up the 1.2 million russian men who participated in the full scale invasion of Ukraine to show that your musings about russians being afraid of conscription in the late 90s is BS. You’re making up excuses and whitewashing russian crimes. Helping them play the vicitm. It’s always someone else’s fault or there is some excuse.
Where did I say that there is something inherent (essential) about russians that makes them act this way? Why would I even say this? This would be another excuse. Russians have the full capability to build out a normal society and even pay for the wrongs of their genocidal imperialism. They choose not to. They are welcome to prove me wrong.
Pretty much every single Russian who’s not actively Z hates Russia right now, even if they can’t admit it to themselves.
You’re either very naive or you’re being malicious. Show me an example of a russian “who is not actively Z” (and not hated by 99.99% of the population) showing any measure of nuance on their genocide of the Chechens in the 90s. An appreciation that comparable civilian causalities would be 7 million russians dead would be great.
You can take that as an opportunity to educate, or you can increase the amount of prejudice in the world.
And what do you mean by an opportunity to educate? What is your expected outcome from this alleged “education” and when (specific date) to you expect to see a result? Or is this just a meaningless platitude?
Asking people to respect facts is not prejudice. Pointing out that you (and many others) are whitewashing and enabling russian crimes is not prejudice. Rejecting infantalization of russian society and treating them like adults who should take responsibility for their actions is not prejudice.
You’re just making up more excuses and trying to justify their behaviour (albeit in what seems to be good faith). 1.2 millions russian men have directly taken part in the fullscale invasion of Ukraine and 75%+ were not conscripted. And you ignore this.
I will admit what you position as blanket judgment is not a good thing. But it’s also not a good thing to infantilize a group of people and treat them like children. The russian “liberals” need to be treated based on their actions and it’s up to them to make the right calls.
The issue isn’t about putin acting like a Tsar. The issue is about a large majority enabling and supporting a tsar. Ignoring this is not doing anyone any favours.
I won’t get into the discussion on russian (or any other) language in Ukraine. I am talking fighting against russian genocidal imperialism. This is a completely different topic (if you want to actually look at it from a real perspective). And yet you make a point to ignore it.
If you have a country/polity/group of people that keep making exclusively bad decisions, at every single historical point possible. It is reasonable to have a sober outlook while not “essentializaing” them. Let their choices and actions reflect who they are. It’s all up to them.
I see the champagne bottle element of russian culture made you take a back step to your petty sarcasm?
Your attitude is what enables Putin specifically and near universal support for genocidal imperialism among russians.
Even before putin, the russians killed 50 thousand Chechen civilians when they put down their independence movement. A comparable figure would be ~7 million russian civilian casualties. And you talk about Zemifra albums. The reality is that you value the lives of russians more than the lives of the people they kill (even that may not be your intent).
And of course you blame solely putin (“putin nipped it in the bud”) for the decline of russian civil society. Even though the russians re-elected putin in 2004 (in an election generally considered free and fair) after he shut down all independent mass media. Russians are responsible for the collapse of civil society. Don’t infantalize them, they are not children.
Keed in mind, I lived in russia for a decade, coincidentally around the time you were there. And I did actually enjoy the first Zemfira album when it came out. But unlike you I was cognizant that russians were showing a lack of humanity in their attitude towards Chechens and that even liberal minded were show a worrying level of support for an authoritarian KGB goon.
No where did I say russian (or Bengali or Farsi or any language) cannot be used in private. Ukrainian is the official language of Ukraine, Ukraine has its own heroes and great people of culture.
Don’t get petty with war crimes you little shit.
You seem to be a connisour of russian culture. You should look into their use of champagne bottles, it’s very creative. I think you would appreciate it.
Check out Dalny, Kazan! Ask the locals and say you want a real world experience! Enjoy!
I know you’re being glib and all, but you’re not doing the russians any favours with coddling their imperialist thinking.
They need to figure out what their culture stands for and how they relate to it. They are not even close, even alleged russian “liberals” are raging nationalists outside of public articles in English or western conferences.
Nah, it’s because the article is bullshit.
The “kind of see where both sides are coming from” is de facto support for russian genocidal imperialism.
We don’t need Pushkin statues, we have our own artists and our own heroes.
Getting rid of russian language and russian “culture” is a legitimate aim when your country has suffered multiple genocides and centuries of colonialism. Russian culture is trash and has no value. It’s like saying Islamic state culture is legitimate. Would you be opposed to getting rid of Nazis imagery too?
This is just the economist’s version of teenage edgelord posts. I would like to invite the author and their family to Donbas (this is where me and my family or from), we’ll see what he thinks about Pushkin after that.
I am not arguing against this initiative and to be honest I support it even though I don’t believe in it. I am just sharing my own perspective and it’s not meant to be a critique of this post (even if it comes off that way). FWIW, I upvoted this post after reading the linked page.
I don’t believe there is any point in engaging with russians (be it yelling at them or any kind of dialogue revolving around what I see as platitudes). This is not because they are inherently bad or incapable of change or anything like that. They are very much capable of change, not to mention that framing their behaviour in essentialist terms in many ways allows them to avoid responsibility.
Based on the facts on the ground, the lack of information is not relevant when discussing broad support for genocidal imperialism among russians. They are adults, they full well understand that invading another country, annexing their territories and enforcing their language and culture is wrong. The stuff about “nazis in Ukraine” and NATO/BATO expansion is all a ruse and the russians who promote such polemics know this.
For someone to change their mind, there has to be some sort of driver or incentive. Ethical and humanist arguments cannot change minds when a strong majority (at the very least) of the population explicitly endorses and supports a genocidal imperialist position (while also engaging in duplicitous messaging in order to whitewash their crimes in context of the world at large).
One has to be honest with russians and explicitly tell them their ruse is not going to work. That they will be treated as genocidal imperialists until they change their behaviour (end of occupation, extradition of all russians involved in war crimes, compensation for all killings and damage). Tell them that they are welcome to play the victim, lie about russophobia or support putin or do whatever; they will be treated based on their actions. If you do evil things, you will be treated as evil people, no one is buying your lies.
Now you might say this approach is unreasonable, unrealistic or lacking in pragmatism. To that I will answer; look at it from a more long term perspective. Over the last 110 years, 16 nations have de jure liberated themselves from the yoke of russian imperialism (I am not even counting Warsaw Pact countries). Reagan took an explicit position (evil empire) and lo and behold, the USSR did collapse.
I simply don’t believe the vast majority of russians have any interest in changing their views (based on ethical arguments). They know what they are doing is wrong and they still support it. They need real incentives to change their tune.
Regarding the BBC article, I will point out that the Nazi regime was defeated by military force. Denazification was implemented via multi-decade allied occupation aimed at limiting any hint of revanchism both via positive initiatives such as the marshal plan and long term education initiatives. Unfortunately, this is not viable when it comes to russians.
Like I said earlier, this just my opinion and I do think it’s a well meaning initiative. I would be glad to be wrong regarding the above-mentioned arguments.