Yea, we need that emoji. too bad you can’t embed sound as well. :bomb

Aw thank you! And thank you for dialoguing with me. It was a great read and really gives us (anarchists, MLM, leftists more generally) a lot to think about.

It’s good! I’ve found it really useful.

@MF_COOM@hexbear.net @chicory@hexbear.net @Maoo@hexbear.net @Vampire@hexbear.net @plinky@hexbear.net @Pluto@hexbear.net

I didn’t even think about that parallel – it really is similar to something there, where you have some more entrenched interests that aren’t as responsive to shifts in the population. Very sinister.

It’s interesting, because at least in some cases, structures like that become ossified over time, but the British basically put it in intentionally as a damper.

Does this work? I didn’t realize…

@MF_COOM@hexbear.net @chicory@hexbear.net @Maoo@hexbear.net @Vampire@hexbear.net

I really like the comparison to veganism / ethical consumption. It’s actually a really good analogy, and it does strike me as asking the same question that both Bevins and Graeber are fundamentally asking (and perhaps in disagreement on) – what’s more important, outcomes or means. I do wonder if the prefigurative politics might actually be a kind of cope akin to charity, where it makes you feel good personally, but doesn’t actually address systemic causes.

I think you’re right that at least in my reckoning, results matter. Obviously means do too – you can’t be a pure utilitarian without sanctioning horrors. I don’t think the answer is “moderation,” but rather I feel like the best approach is having a strategic goal that is clear to everyone, and then allowing for different tactics to flourish. After all, it feels like the best “outcomes” of some of these movements have involved the radical consensus/prefigurative people allowing for a vanguard to also work within/alongside the movement, giving the strategic focus to the tactics that can at times be organic/unexpected.

BTW, I’ll be posting the book club a bit late this week - many deadlines yesterday and today. I’m finally in a point where I can put my notes together, so hopefully I’ll be able to post soon.

Also, it’s been really cool reading this - I think the work that our anarchist comrades put into creating these kinds of spaces is something I’m perhaps too quick to gloss over – it really takes energy to produce a space of radical consensus building and horizontalism that I just don’t think as a ML I fully appreciate.

I have been waiting until I finish the reading to make comments but I think I’m going to start going chapter by chapter to engage a little more broadly with all the notes you are posting.

Definitely do so. I’ll admit, I’m just writing my notes as I go, so please don’t feel that you need to have a fully baked thesis on the chunks of reading. The book’s so episodic that the fact is, each chapter is kind of its own beast. I think Bevins would approve…

Also, I think you’re right on this about the “Arab Spring” – there’s clearly a sense that they were expecting the full hammer, and perhaps pulled some punches due to that as well (which ironically, probably led to them getting more out of things than they expected).

Also, agree about seeing more about the Egypt scenario. There’s some material in the coming chapters on the Saudi role in all this as well. There’s definitely some State Department choices that perhaps Bevins is either not privy to or glossing over to focus on the protests.

I feel like Bevins is pointing toward the “New Left” moving away from the Leninist vanguard type structure as perhaps a contributing factor to these movements fizzling out.

I get this vibe as well. While there’s something perhaps inherently appealing about horizontalism/prefigurative politics, it sure as hell seems that this also led to these movements failing to achieve full revolution (and this week’s readings seem to support this). However, I think where I’m still stuck (between weeks 1 and 2 here) is how this then ends up feeding the right wing reaction so effectively…

Educate yourself with blowback season 2.

https://blowback.show/Season-2

Cuba literally has better rights for queer people than the US now, so yeah, I’m curious what metrics as well. Looking forward to some response from them.

This is what I’m expecting from them.

What’s your opinion on Cuba OP?

Viral marketing for blowback season 4?

Someone didn’t read the trueanon rules for life

I’m a

Based posting

Removed by mod

I mean ironically, the guy who kicked us out’s mother was totally fine. Just an old lady who needed the rent to supplement her fixed income. When she died, 6 months later the “I’m selling the place, you need to be out by X day” email came.