But what you’re neglecting there is the fact that our road network is already complete. Aside from new developments, all it needs is maintenance. Our bike network is woeful. There are almost no trips that can be taken entirely on separated bikeways. There are hundreds of kilometres of bikeways needed in Brisbane alone before we could be considered to have even a moderately successful bike network.
And, again, this is positive ROI.
Also: we have too much of a reliance on trucks as it is. Any inter-city road that gets more than half a dozen road trains per day should probably have actual trains to take that freight far more efficiently. Ditto roads seeing the equivalent of that in regular semis. But that’s a conversation for another thread.
Y’all apparently pave it with asphalt, which has sky high maintenance costs compared to concrete + rebar. That would be something I consider to be the actual issue, especially when you run super heavy truck trains like y’all do. If I was in charge of your road network, which I’m not, I’d start paving your big roads properly. But that’s neither here nor there.
To grossly simplify a very expansive topic of concrete vs asphalt, vs bitumen…
Concrete = more upfront cost, slower to built. It is more durable. Costs more to repair.
Less traction.
More noisy to drive on due to joints.
Bitumen = cheapest up front to build.
Less durable, but can still get a fairly good life out of it if designed to meet expected loads. Can be repaired more cheaply.
Asphalt. Middle ground between the two. (It’s effectively bitumen with cement binder added)
Most of our freeways, major arterial roads here are asphalt.
Things that effect the choice:
Different CAPEX vs OPEX strategies, especially with politics for public roads.
Local availability of materials.
Local environmental conditions i.e. freeze / thaw cycles we don’t have to deal with in most of Australia. High temperatures we do get, which does effect bitumen.
Fair to say that costs in one country for different labour and materials look a bit different too.
We don’t do them anywhere near as much as America apparently does but since I believe you’re around Brisbane I can pretty much guarantee you’ve driven on concrete roads (it’d be a lot less likely if you lived in Woop Woop). Look for it on primary routes that get a lot of heavy vehicle traffic - for example head south on the Pacific Highway and you’ll find large sections of concrete.
Oh damn. I don’t go that way often (my whole life is northside or within one kilometre of the river on the southside), but I have been down there a few times. I don’t think I’ve ever actually noticed the road being concrete. That’s wild to me.
Where do you get the ridiculous assertion that a bicycle is just a hobby? Plenty of people cycle to work, shops, visit friends etc. I am one of them.
Brisbane City Council openly publishes counts of cycle paths around Brisbane. There are literally thousands of people using these on weekdays to commute.
Have you ever looked into what goes into a road? And what goes into a bike path/sidewalk?
Have you? I’ve seen wide ranging figures around the world, but Australian data says every dollar spent on bike paths returns $5 to the economy. Meanwhile, money spent on roads costs the economy, returning less than $1 per dollar spent.
Nobody is saying we shouldn’t have roads, but the amount spent on them is obscene, considering the opportunity cost.
0.1% makes sense? Jesus that’s a dumb take.
Actually I decided to look it up. It’s about $2.5 million per mile for a basic 2-lane asphalt road. https://www.welovepaving.com/how-much-does-it-cost-to-pave-one-mile-of-road-in-california/#%3A~%3Atext=Paving+one+mile+of+a%2Ccosts+of+%24560%2C000+to+%241%2C050%2C000.
That number can get much higher very quickly if you use concrete, have more lanes, need bridges or tunnels, and whatever else comes up.
A mile of 4 ft wide concrete sidewalk is about $182,265.6
https://www.lawnstarter.com/blog/cost/concrete-sidewalk-price/
And very few are walking/bicycling from Perth to Brisbane, but there’s still trucks going in between which depend on the road network.
More money per mile and more miles means it costs more.
But what you’re neglecting there is the fact that our road network is already complete. Aside from new developments, all it needs is maintenance. Our bike network is woeful. There are almost no trips that can be taken entirely on separated bikeways. There are hundreds of kilometres of bikeways needed in Brisbane alone before we could be considered to have even a moderately successful bike network.
And, again, this is positive ROI.
Also: we have too much of a reliance on trucks as it is. Any inter-city road that gets more than half a dozen road trains per day should probably have actual trains to take that freight far more efficiently. Ditto roads seeing the equivalent of that in regular semis. But that’s a conversation for another thread.
Y’all apparently pave it with asphalt, which has sky high maintenance costs compared to concrete + rebar. That would be something I consider to be the actual issue, especially when you run super heavy truck trains like y’all do. If I was in charge of your road network, which I’m not, I’d start paving your big roads properly. But that’s neither here nor there.
Wait, where are you that they make roads out of concrete? I’ve never heard of such a thing.
Can be fairly sure they are in the USA.
To grossly simplify a very expansive topic of concrete vs asphalt, vs bitumen…
Concrete = more upfront cost, slower to built. It is more durable. Costs more to repair. Less traction. More noisy to drive on due to joints.
Bitumen = cheapest up front to build. Less durable, but can still get a fairly good life out of it if designed to meet expected loads. Can be repaired more cheaply.
Asphalt. Middle ground between the two. (It’s effectively bitumen with cement binder added) Most of our freeways, major arterial roads here are asphalt.
Things that effect the choice: Different CAPEX vs OPEX strategies, especially with politics for public roads.
Local availability of materials.
Local environmental conditions i.e. freeze / thaw cycles we don’t have to deal with in most of Australia. High temperatures we do get, which does effect bitumen.
Fair to say that costs in one country for different labour and materials look a bit different too.
Huh. I had no idea bitumen and asphalt were even different things.
We don’t do them anywhere near as much as America apparently does but since I believe you’re around Brisbane I can pretty much guarantee you’ve driven on concrete roads (it’d be a lot less likely if you lived in Woop Woop). Look for it on primary routes that get a lot of heavy vehicle traffic - for example head south on the Pacific Highway and you’ll find large sections of concrete.
Oh damn. I don’t go that way often (my whole life is northside or within one kilometre of the river on the southside), but I have been down there a few times. I don’t think I’ve ever actually noticed the road being concrete. That’s wild to me.
What are these miles and ft you speak of ?
Sorry, 1.69 (nice) Kilometers and .305 Meters, or roughly 1/2 of a Futball/Soccer Ball
Sorry we’re not big on soccer here. Got that in football lengths? (I’ll accept either Aussie Rules or rugby footballs.)
A foot is about two cm longer than a Rugby ball
It just reflect usefulness of each applications. You needs trucks but bicycle is just a hobby. Walking just do not need much infra at all.
Where do you get the ridiculous assertion that a bicycle is just a hobby? Plenty of people cycle to work, shops, visit friends etc. I am one of them.
Brisbane City Council openly publishes counts of cycle paths around Brisbane. There are literally thousands of people using these on weekdays to commute.
bullshit
How much do you think a road costs versus a bike path? If anything, bike paths are over funded.
Have you ever looked into what goes into a road? And what goes into a bike path/sidewalk?
Have you? I’ve seen wide ranging figures around the world, but Australian data says every dollar spent on bike paths returns $5 to the economy. Meanwhile, money spent on roads costs the economy, returning less than $1 per dollar spent.
Nobody is saying we shouldn’t have roads, but the amount spent on them is obscene, considering the opportunity cost.