• Blackout@kbin.social
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      1 year ago

      Its definitely an apartheid state. Unlike South Africa the ruling ethnicity is the majority. They’ve been at war with the minority since it’s inception since that meant physically displacing people who didn’t want to leave. I don’t believe peace was ever an option Israel honestly considered.

    • cedeho@feddit.de
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      1 year ago

      While there surely is reason to criticize Israel on many levels I don’t understand what people like you expect what Israel or any other state would do if there was a group (Hamas, which is designated as terrorist by many Democratic countries) raiding it’s territory and kills and kidnaps a number of it’s citizen.

      just to put in relation 1.400/10.000.000 Israelis would equal 46.000 USA citizen (333.000.000 inhabitants). when applying this scale this would be much worse than 9/11.

      Again, I think Israel should rightfully be criticized for many things, but clearing out Hamas makes sense when viewed as it’s own topic. And looking at the number of high civilian casualties in Gaza they are being criticized even by the USA, you still have to consider that Hamas are hiding in civilian infrastructure on purpose to use them as human shields. Also while the numbers of casualties in Gaza are being reported from inside Gaza you would not know how many of them are actually part of Hamas. They won’t give you this information.

      Anyway, the whole middle east is fucked up and I wish that they could finally all live in peace and ditch their religious fanaticism so the few can not exploit the religious for their fascist cause whether it be Muslim, Christian or Jewish.

      • medgremlin@lemmy.sdf.org
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        1 year ago

        Israel lost 0.014% of its population to the Hamas attack. Gaza has lost about 0.52% of its population to Israel’s rampage and that over 40% of those deaths are children. How is that comparable at all?

        • cedeho@feddit.de
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          1 year ago

          40% of those deaths are children

          Where is that info from? Gonna wait for independent journalists to provide information on this, right?

          • Count042@lemmy.ml
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            1 year ago

            Fuck off genocide denier. More than half of the population was children.

            Also, the list of the dead has been attempted to be verified by major news organizations, and has been successfully.

            • cedeho@feddit.de
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              1 year ago

              I don’t deny anything? I am looking for information. What about you?

              • Count042@lemmy.ml
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                1 year ago

                Heres some simple information. Gazas population was over 50 percent under 18. I.e. children.

                It’s within reasonable margin to divide the casualties by two to get the number of dead children.

                I personally have two friends who’ve had their entire extended families blown up.

              • Count042@lemmy.ml
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                1 year ago

                I should have known better:

                I appreciate your attempt to bring rationality and reason to the discussion, but you’re wasting your time on this shithole.

                yeah, I realized this half way through typing but wanted to finish this anyway.

                And yeah, asking for independent verification the way you did absolutely implies denial. I should have realized that from your instance that you’re from a country that literally defines anti-Zionism as antisemitism.

                • cedeho@feddit.de
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                  1 year ago

                  Wow. Now the instance I am coming is the point of debate. Honestly, you are not interested in any honest discussion after all. I don’t have any political agenda with me like you obviously do.

                  All I do is wish for war and terrorism to end and this needs democratic processes and independent press after all. This is my point.

                  • Count042@lemmy.ml
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                    1 year ago

                    I do have a political agenda. Not tolerating or trying to justify genocide.

                    I’m pretty satisfied with the morality of the political stance of ‘Never Again’

                    There is no middle ground or appeasement to genocide.

      • Virtual Insanity @lemmy.world
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        1 year ago

        raiding it’s territory and kills and kidnaps a number of it’s citizen.

        As Israel has done to Palistinians already for years?

        But that just gets swept under the carpet when Israel does it.

        Israels actions standing over the Palestine should have had them classed as terrorists long ago.

        Hamas is no better though, leaving 2 terrorist organisations fighting while innocents suffer.

      • Camelbeard@lemmy.world
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        1 year ago

        It also doesn’t help that Hamas doesn’t care about Palestinians either. For example when they shoot rockets and place the rocket launcher next to a hospital or school, they know it’s going to be hit by Israel at some point.

        I get the reasons for both parties, but fighting isn’t going to resolve this, they have both tried for wat too long. Divide the country and get all the other nations to recognize both countries is the only thing that could work (I believe).

      • Count042@lemmy.ml
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        1 year ago

        Read up on operation cast lead. That is what human shields looks like, and it wasn’t the Palestinians that did it.

        https://www.hrw.org/news/2010/11/26/israel-soldiers-punishment-using-boy-human-shield-inadequate

        What do I expect them to do? Not ‘mow the grass’ every couple of years. Not use soldiers to protect murderers as the ‘settlers’, sorry, thieves go in and steal more of west bank. Somewhere that has no hamas, by the by.

        What do I expect them to do? Not commit genocide. That’s what I expect.

        I also expect them not to be a white supremacist apartheid ethno state, but I know that one isn’t possible, just as I know that it isn’t possible to not expect them to be terrorists or commit the Nakba, or to socialize with the Irgun.

        Fuck off you genocide excuser.

        • cedeho@feddit.de
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          1 year ago

          maybe try to discuss without being toxic? I do never excuse any genocide.

          • Count042@lemmy.ml
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            1 year ago

            Again, I think Israel should rightfully be criticized for many things, but clearing out Hamas makes sense when viewed as it’s own topic. And looking at the number of high civilian casualties in Gaza they are being criticized even by the USA, you still have to consider that Hamas are hiding in civilian infrastructure on purpose to use them as human shields. Also while the numbers of casualties in Gaza are being reported from inside Gaza you would not know how many of them are actually part of Hamas. They won’t give you this information.

            This is literally justification.

            Maybe try not justifying the murder of over 10,000 civilians if you don’t want toxicity.

        • Count042@lemmy.ml
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          1 year ago

          Anyone conflating being anti-Zionist with being antisemitic isn’t being reasonable.

          I would argue it’s pretty antisemitic to think that Israel speaks for all Jewish people.

          • ParsnipWitch@feddit.de
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            1 year ago

            Israel doesn’t exist just because of or for Zionists. Or do you propose everyone who was born there but happens to not be a Palestinian should leave the country?

            • Count042@lemmy.ml
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              1 year ago

              No, I advocate for them to demand a single Democratic state with Democratic rights for everyone, regardless of ethnicity. Since, you know, they’ve intentionally done everything possible to kill a two state solution.

              Otherwise, they promote an apartheid vision for the region.

              Also, it does exist solely because of Zionists. Where do you think it came from?

            • Diva (she/her)@lemmy.ml
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              1 year ago

              It exists to be a unsinkable US aircraft carrier parked at the crossroads of Asia, Africa and Europe. It’s an ethnostate where non-jews are disenfranchised and nonwhite Jews are sterilized.

              Jews, Christians and Muslims coexisted in Palestine long before the European colony arrived.

              Fucking Germans I swear

        • cedeho@feddit.de
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          1 year ago

          I appreciate your attempt to bring rationality and reason to the discussion, but you’re wasting your time on this shithole.

          yeah, I realized this half way through typing but wanted to finish this anyway.