Your Windows 10 PC will soon be ‘junk’ - users told to resist Microsoft deadline::If you’re still using Windows 10 and don’t want to upgrade to Windows 11 any time soon you might want to sign a new online petition
Or just try linux. It’s pretty great
I love Linux. I have it installed on 3 machines, have been using it for over 3 years, and would install it right away if I ever got a new computer.
A couple weeks ago, I was feeling pretty exhausted and just wanted to play a game thru Proton on my laptop. I got it running, but it was unplayable because it was using my integrated GPU instead of my discrete one. I spent the night switching compositors, cables, and drivers, but none of it fixed the issue.
The next day, feeling exhausted from fruitless debugging, I tried to launch another game via Proton that I knew had worked in the past, but it crashed on launch. I spent the whole day going thru the same steps I did the day before, but also consulting ProtonDB and trying software that would force usage of the dgpu.
The next day, I installed Windows 10 to an external hard drive and spent the day debloating it. Drivers got installed automatically, I downloaded both games on Steam, and they just worked. So I guess I now dual-boot Windows just for the games that don’t work thru Proton. Loading game worlds and booting up take ~75% longer, but that’s to be expected because it’s running on a 4 year old HDD connected over a USB cable.
As mentioned earlier, I love Linux a lot, and if all games had native binaries or Proton worked 100% I’d format that god-forsaken hard drive. But when real life has got me down, I don’t need Linux to get me down further. I don’t like Windows, and I feel incredibly dirty whenever I press F7 on boot to get to Windows. But when my choices are “spend 8 hours on fruitless quest to get >2fps” and “press play button”, I’m going to take the path of least resistance.
That’s the thing. I love to use Linux for work, but when I don’t want to tinker it sometimes sucks for gaming.
I would probably rather get a gaming console for the TV to game.
Why not a steam deck?
I love my steam deck but there’s enough games from my library that won’t run at all or only run after some manual trickery in desktop mode.
Tbf that really depends on the kind of games you like playing.
Yep. And then there’s gamepass. I vastly vastly prefer working and using Linux day to day, but games, man. Man’s gotta be able to game after a long day at work and I wasted literally a week of after work hours trying and failing to get Starfield to run on Proton.
iGPU+dGPU, esp with Nvidia is pretty bad on Linux. It’s pretty flawless these days if you’re using only one vendor and it isn’t Nvidia.
Don’t know what you are talking about. I use an Nvidia GPU with a Wayland compositor/Window manager (Hyprland to be exact) and I’ve never experienced any issues whatsoever.
I have an external monitor that runs at 144Hz, but a while ago I realized because it was connected over HDMI, it was limited to 60Hz (for some weird reason). So I bought a DisplayPort cable, and after plugging it in the screen was flickering/artifacting in some weird way that I haven’t seen it do on X11 or Windows with the same cable. So as a result I’ve had to reluctantly switched back to i3 for daily use
What game was it?
The first game mentioned was Bille Bust Up. I liked the demo that was off of Steam (and it ran fine using the proton-call command), so I subscribed to the developer’s Patreon (which gives a Steam key) and it wouldn’t use my dgpu.
The second game was A Hat in Time.
Nvidia laptop by the sounds of it?
Anything with an AMD GPU is going to have a better time (or even just a dedicated Nvidia GPU in a desktop).
Thanks for sharing. I’m sorry to hear you had trouble. Both games are rated as gold on ProtonDB. So, I am surprised you had trouble with them.
My experience has been the opposite. Everything has worked surprisingly well. Do you by chance use an Nvidia gpu?
Yep, Nvidia gpu. At the time I bought it I wasn’t aware of their reputation for Linux support, and I bought my laptop from System76 (with Pop!_OS, because Nvidia drivers are more “just works” on it). I’ve had a fairly good experience with all of it, but the next computer I buy will definitely have an AMD GPU.
I think this is the first time I’ve been fully unable to get the dgpu working. Every other time it’s just worked or worked with tweaking
I work in a linux shop.
You couldn’t pay me to use Windows for development, sysadmin, backend services, etc.
But on the desktop? Hell no. We maintain a modern debian desktop environment for our users, and it’s a pain in the ass. Mediocre UX, mediocre integration of mixed-bag third-party apps, and too many workarounds and gotchas you need to Just Know About. I just don’t have the energy.
I use windows at home, and for my underlying work environment - and I just SSH into linux boxes for the actual tappy-tappy stuff.
Mediocre UX, mediocre integration of mixed-bag third-party apps, and too many workarounds and gotchas you need to Just Know About.
You’re talking about my Windows 10 experience? The european, less spying/advertising version, mind you.
If only there was an OS with an excellent graphical user interface and a direct UNIX pedigree, where you can drop into a full zsh and POSIX user land directly after install at the touch of a button.
Sure. As soon as Linux doesn’t require memorizing hundreds of commands for basic use, and actually runs the software you need to use, I’m sure it will become very popular.
So… today?
I’m a Linux user. Been one for a long time.
When I’m doing dev-work, shelling into remote VMs and stuff yeah I have to get nitty-gritty with the command-line.
But on my regular daily-driver OS? I only use the terminal because I want to; or sometimes I think it’s more efficient. But I haven’t absolutely needed to for a long time now.
Linux GUI has really come a long way. It’s not at MacOS level (yet), but it’s very functional and aesthetic. Give it a try.
I’ve been “trying” it for years. Moreso because Windows became truly unbearable than Linux got more useable.
Yeah, I hear you. I still run an old MacbookPro with MacOS for personal computing stuff. I just don’t always want to tinker. It’s been a living meme: “the year of the Linux desktop” for years on years now and yet we still comprise like 0.3% of the desktop market.
But I really do see a tide shift now. Microsoft is doubling down on the enshittification of Windows. Apple’s hardware is still—as always—prohibitively priced. Steam OS on the Steam deck. The Indian government officially adopting it—and its FOSS office application offerings. Companies like Pop!_OS and Framework are making real headway for popular adoption. HP, Dell, Lenovo all offer Linux-default laptops now, that aren’t just “Pro-Dev” offerings.
Linux is not as polished as the for-profit offerings. Perhaps it never will be. Perhaps that’s also its appeal.
I don’t think not being polished is an appeal for anyone. For me it’s just being able to control it. Like Apple wants to control your hardware (and also your software on mobile) and Windows wants to cram whatever bullshit on your computer that they can and load it down with all sorts of bloatware and spyware. What’s my other option? I’d rather deal with an unpolished system than that bullshit any day.
There are a few distributions out there that are genuinely trying to abstract the nitty-gritty away and bring a polished Linux to the masses. ElementaryOS, for one. Yet, it is still Linux at its core and all the poweruser functionality isn’t far away.
But to face a bit of harsh reality, the average computer user doesn’t want that. They resist change and learning something new, they want it to “just work” and “work for me the way [company] says it should” even if that means gross (often implicit) violations of privacy, control, agency. They just don’t care. Or maybe they don’t know. It’s amazing how hard it is to “degoogle” oneself, let alone “demicrosoft” or “deapple”. As I type this on an iPhone…
There will always be bleeding edge computation environments. I just hope that we users can force Big Tech’s hands to respect data privacy and agency. We had a big win with Google conceding web-DRM, but it won’t be the first nor last attempt and their patience is immense.
Tron: “I fight for the users.
If you haven’t checked out linux in 5+ years, I recommend that you check out something user-friendly like Mint. No commands needed!
Been using it for the last 2 years. That’s how I know.
Sure ok, can you give us some examples from the hundreds of commands you need to memorise for basic use?
The time is now then!
Hundreds of commands is just not true with many distros. Everything is gui based these days. The command line is worth getting familiar with, but it’s not necessary.
Hasn’t been my experience. Usually needed at the bare minimum just to install and uninstall the few programs that do run in Linux.
I mean, it won’t let me. Windows Update inists my PC doesn’t meet the minimum spec, and I’m not inclined to argue with it.
#GleefulCompliance
You can use Rufus to install windows 11 and bypass the requirements. It does everything for you – downloads the latest win 11 service pack, removes the blocking requirements, and you can even tell it to automatically disable all of the telemetry and phoning home. You’ll still need a license key when you install, or run it on a machine that was running a valid win 10 install previously. But I’m running win 11 on an 8 year old PC with zero issues.
Here is a good guide that explains in detail.
True, or I could just not.
Mine doesn’t, either. Go go gadget 12 year old processor! Who knew being a cheapskate could be so beneficial?
Is it the UEFI security thing?
TPM. Probably switched off in the BIOS or something.
Don’t care, don’t like what I’ve seen of 11, happy to wait until I’m forced to change.
Just follow this guide and all of your problems will be gone
Fun fact: Linux is so customizable that you can run a modern GUI and software on 46mb of ram and a CPU from 1989. Don’t let Microshit tell you to throw out your old PC, it’s truly surprising what’s possible.
Yeah but can it run signed drm in a way that the owner of the computer can’t read the keys? Checkmate atheists.
I’ve switch my home computers to Linux. Unfortunately, at work, I have to maintain a Windows environment…
Did your job give you a work Laptop? If you personally own it then you could just run Windows in a VM.
I do IT support at my company. We are a small business, but we work on many government contracts. I’m personally not experienced enough on Linux to support it at a businesses level. Part of working on government contracts is that we have to be CMMC certified in the relatively near future, probably first or second quarter next year. I’d love to get off of Windows, but like I mentioned I don’t have the knowledge to get us there, and we’re pretty entrenched in Windows until at least after the audit. Maybe someday, but the Microsoft m365 business GCC High is built with that specific certification in mind. It would require changing everything about our business to switch, and I don’t care enough about the company to go through that.
But can I be fucked waiting 5 minutes for a VM to boot every time I need to use a Windows-only tool?
Don’t shutdown the VM. Instead, use shutdown -> save button in the virt-manager. Now your VM will launch in seconds next time you want to use it because it’ll be resumed from the saved state.
now your VM will start in seconds
Cries in HDD
Sounds like a great excuse for a bit of a hardware upgrade, SSDs have gotten pretty cheap. You can change your whole computing life for $30-50.
You could just use the earliest version of Windows that the software works (Windows 7 usually) and then keep the VM air gapped (aka no Internet connection)
Let me introduce you to Adobe. Single-handedly keeping Linux adoption in check.
So customizable that it can’t even be run on many devices.
Linux runs on way more devices than Windows, what are you talking about?
Well not the ones I tried. Maybe I had bad luck.
Now this has me curious, what devices are those? Since transitioning to Linux I’ve installed it on a Mac, a surface pro 4, an old Lenovo laptop, an Asus laptop from 2014, my dedicated LAN desktop PC and my main desktop gaming PC, and none of those have had any issues.
It’s been like 15 years so I don’t remember but I remember one wouldn’t work due to a proprietary driver. The other I just couldn’t figure out so it may be user error but it certainly wasn’t easy to set up.
That’s understandable then, a lot has happened and the installation process in most distros is extremely user friendly and automated these days.
I have been meaning to give it another go. You think it’s easier these days?
Nah, fuck it, I’m switching to Linux.
Yep. Gaming is starting to work on Linux, so I will move to Linux once Microsoft cancels 10.
11 has nothing more than more telemetry and tracking going for it. Gaming is slower, so why would I upgrade for a worse experience.
I play old games still anyways. Linux is more secure than Windows 11 anyways. I won’t upgrade to 11, and turned off TPM in BIOS so 11 won’t automatically install.
Can’t wait for anti cheat to work with Linux ☹️
This is my biggest hold up. Pretty much any triple A game has anti cheat these days.
Most modern games can work. But this is a dev issue, not a “wait until it works on linux” issue
EAC, and BattleEye both work on Linux, all the dev has to do is tick a “Proton Compatible” checkbox. Which many publishers/devs, namely Epic, don’t do because they hate linux with a red hot passion for some unknown reason.
Gaming is starting to work on Linux
Are you living under a rock ? Gaming is working in linux now.
I haven’t entirely switched in part due to Rainbow Six Siege not working on Linux. Something about Battleye supports it but Ubi hasn’t done the few simple steps to allow it. So it’s not entirely working yet
Edit: Apparently this is one of the best ways to let Ubisoft know that players want this fixed https://r6fix.ubi.com/projects/RAINBOW6-SIEGE-LIVE/issues/LIVE-49179
What I meant was that it is starting to get simple to play games using Linux now.
I’m not a teenager anymore who enjoys getting games to work by editing settings outside of games like during the Win 3.11 and MS-DOS days.
After decades working IT jobs I don’t want to do work when I’m trying to relax. Linus will have a nearly seamless system when Win 10 reaches EOL.
Next computer of mine will definitely be running Linux. Only thing I’d ever need windows for is some oddly specific software that won’t work on Linux because I’m too dumb to get working properly.
There is no way they don’t offer extended support for Windows 10. Many PCs can’t get to windows 11. Imagine all the malware infected machines that will be out there.
I worked for a large computer company in the late 90s, early 2000s. When XP came out, they said there would be no site licensing. This meant we had to keep track of license keys for thousands upon thousands of systems, costing millions. This was before KMS or anything.
“Nothing we can do,” Microsoft said. “We have no gate key.”
Our server farms at the time were 40% Windows NT 4, 55% Sun systems, and 5% Linux. So we said, “okay,” and called Red Hat. In a year, our back end was 60% Sun, 35% Linux, and 5% Windows NT. We were already in talks to start switching to Linux workstations for desktops.
“Oh, you mean this gate key,” said Microsoft.
Asshats. They lost our server business, but let us use XP with a site license.
I assume eventually they’ll drop the UEFI security requirement, which is why 90% of the “can’t” cases occur.
Uefi isn’t the push, the push is tpm 2.0, which I think is a much much larger percentage of “incompatibilities”. tpm allows for drm that is much harder to bypass, since the random number generator operates securely in hardware. It’s for their benefit not yours.
Precisely why I’m in no rush to “upgrade”.
My Windows install is still in compatibility mode. It’s the sole reason I can’t upgrade to 11, not that I want to. I can’t be bothered to reinstall Windows on UEFI when there’s no point anyway. I’ll happily stick to 10.
Microsoft products are all about getting infected with malware. That’s the whole point of this company.
Dude what ad ridden hellscape is that site, ublock pinged 45 ads on that page just on load lol
Oh that’s just the start menu
My machine running Win10 LTSC is getting updates until 2029. I also have machines running Debian. There is no way I am installing the regular version of Win11. Its trash made to pander to greedy shareholders. If they take the garbage out for LTSC, I might run it.
As an individual, how do you get the LTSC version legally, and how much does it cost?
Well, your best option is to switch to Linux
As I Linux user I can’t wait for the flood of cheap perfectly good hardware from these idiots
People will just keep trucking on Windows 10.
Bonus points is that they’ll probably be the last gasp of hardware consistently supporting S3 sleep too
Hey, can you elaborate? I switched my couple year old Windows 11 laptop to Linux a few months back, and no matter what I can’t get sleep to work. After doing research, apparently this is a common issue with Linux on laptops.
I eventually got hibernate to work, so I have it do that instead, but regular sleep would be nice…
Yep! So I can’t say necessarily what your specific problem is but it’s probably related to the big push towards “S0 Low Power Idle”, or “Modern Standby/Sleep”.
In a nutshell, MS and related peeps wanted to go after the always-connected, updated info, instant-on nature of the iPads and other mobile devices. I would guess Apple’s “Power Nap” functionality on their Mac was on their mind too. The effort resulted in the Windows 8-era Connected Standby as it was known then.
They have been pushing hard on S0 as the next version of sleep since. Who “they” is I am not entirely sure - it could be upstream at MS, Intel, most likely but the end result regardless is that OEM’s have been switching to Modern Standby.
But fortunately, some machines have a choice. My ThinkPad X1 Extreme Gen 4 has a BIOS toggle to switch between S0 and ol reliable S3 sleep (labeled Linux sleep) - no Windows re-installation needed despite the warning on it. Other machines might not like the XPS 9510 and Latitude 7210 2-in-1 I had previously. (I got rid of the former due to warranty issues and suspect build quality, the latter because I needed more oomph and less portability)
I was losing 8% battery an hour in the 7210 and I wasted hours troubleshooting only to find out that the M.2 drive I installed was somehow “not compatible” with Modern Standby, after that was sorted it was the only Modern Standby experience I had that was mostly acceptable.
My new work laptop is a ThinkPad T14 Gen 3 and there is no option to enable S3 so I am on that Modern Standby train involuntarily for this one. Anyways, after the battery reliably drained several times in a few hours of sleep, with the power light pulsing indicating it was sleeping - I was able to get the company service desk to enable my hibernate setting and I use that exclusively so I don’t have to keep it plugged in while traveling to save my state.
Sometimes that toggle is removed in a BIOS update so you’ll have to research that too, and what version to install if it occurs.
So yea, S3 is going out of fashion and taking reliable sleep with it. Lot of complaining out there about battery drain, overheating in bags, OEM’s recommend just using hibernate, Linus Tech Tips had a video ranting about switching to Macs over it and supposedly heard from an MS engineer but I don’t think Microsoft will be able to truly fix it, it’s been years.
If my laptop dies, I’ll probably get another like it or maybe take the opportunity to jump to a Steam Deck and maybe an ARM Mac. Not sure yet. When the time to jump to Linux comes in a couple years, maybe I’ll just get a desktop.
Oh wow, thanks for the in depth reply. Am I incorrect in assuming that they want the “Modern Standby” to be standard, because that mode means the device is always “connected” despite being asleep?
There must be a reason that a corporation would push for a seemingly inferior technology, and it’s basically 100% of the time about money.
I’m just speculating but I would say that’s “not wrong”.
The network connected part of Modern Standby can actually be disabled reasonably easily in command prompt and it does come up as a possible band-aid to battery drain issues. (In my applications it didn’t help a noticeable amount but at least it’s there.)
When Modern Standby works, it works… okay. I mentioned getting it working on my 7210 2-in-1 after swapping for a proper SSD (eyeroll) and while it still used more power than S3, I could live with 1-2% of battery loss in an hour a lot more easily than 7-10% and I leaned on hibernate more as well since so many of us have been burned by Modern Standby when it doesn’t work.
I’m sure that while having the user computer being connected more is a net positive for telemetry and data collection but I think the drive towards it is more of a semi-misguided effort to compete with the sheer instant-on, always-updated nature of smartphones, iPads, Android tablets, etc. much in the vein of how Windows has been pivoting left-and-right to fit onto tablets the past decade but not completely recognizing that people often use desktops and laptops differently.
So on paper it’s not inferior at all. Instant on, instant off, minimal power use increase, the computer can ring when calls are received, it can keep email up-to-date, sound alerts for reminders all while sleeping whereas it’s completely dead in S3 save for RAM being powered.
Sounds cool, it’s high-tech, I thought it was neat when I first heard about it especially since Apple’s Power Nap feature was around for years already and did nice housekeeping functions while the machine was sleeping - albeit within power use and thermal limits.
Microsoft and OEM’s just can’t seem to make it reliable enough to be the slam-dunk it theoretically can be nor do it’s benefits really shine in my use case since I sit down to use my Windows machines and nothing I use really can take advantage of Modern Standby. And since S3 is increasingly being pulled out, Linux has to deal with their shenanigans too.
Edit: Also I would expect ARM Windows machines to sleep better or at least be efficient enough to not worry, but I can’t say for sure.
I’ve been to the swap meet prices are already falling for older PCs.
Just in case you don’t want to go to the tabloid hell that is the Express Petition Link pirg.org
It’s such an awful site, and always surprises me when I see it being used/shared. Surely when it comes to tech there are better resources than a tabloid for it.
Sounds like a good time to give Linux a try!
Nah fuck you, I’m staying with 10 as long as I can, then I’m switching to linux
Try it on an external drive. I did that a couple years ago just to fool around and see if I liked it, within a week it was my main OS and I’ve barely used Windows since.
Your PC will soon be be junk if you do not want to try out Linux.
Your PC is already junk if it runs Windows. But you can easily fix that by installing Linux.
The real problem is when Steam drops support on W10…
Runs great in Linux Mint
The problems is the games under it. Most notably game with anti-cheat and Oculus Rift desktop games. Does the Oculus client, revive and games work under linux?
A surprising amount of games support linux anti-cheat now: https://areweanticheatyet.com
Oculus does not work, but that’s expected for a Facebook product… Valve Index and HTC Vive work pretty good. I’ve personally played 5-10 VR games on linux with an Index I borrowed from a friend
Oh fuck Facebook. I haven’t given them a cent. But there is no denying the amazing game studios they bought out for exclusives. Such as Ready at Dawn’s Lone Echo. One of the best VR games period. I think I’ll try to virtualize that specific use case and use linux for more gaming.
I will never buy a Quest. I am currently running first gen HTC Vive and my only savoir is the Valve Decard. Hang on gotta hit the copium.
The day i had ads on my start page i immidiately uninstalled windows. I installed some linux distro its been like three years and ive finally settled on arch. it was hard but fuck ads on the start page and i feel smarter for it
I was already using Linux a lot of the time when Windows 7 was out, and seeing Microsoft push ads in the start menu, as well as all the other trash and pointless changes that they included with Windows 8+ just confirmed my decision to leave the Windows ecosystem.
When you swap distros, how do you manage all your files and settings? Do you just save your files externally and start from scratch every time you change a distro?
Typically your personal files and app settings are stored somewhere in your user home folder, eg under
/home/bob/. Ideally you’ve set up your system in a way so that the entire/home/folder is stored on its own disk or partition at least. That let’s you boot up a different distro while using the same home directory. But even if you haven’t set it up separately from the rest of the system, you can still manually copy all those files.Not every single application setting is transferable between distros as they sometimes use different versions but generally it works well. Many apps also let you manually export profiles or settings and reimport them elsewhere later. Or they have online synchronization baked in.
So in my previous experience I never get prompted to create separate partition, but I have seen others use this method in the past, however this should probably be a step in any Linux install wizard.
It should be offered as an option really.
One caveat is that you need to think ahead about how much space you want to assign to each partition. You could end up with your
/home/partition being full while the system partition still has plenty. Or vice versa. You can manually readjust the boundaries but it requires some understanding and can’t be done on the fly by a non-technical user. By contrast if everything’s stored on the same partition you never have to worry about this.You can, by the way, manually recreate this set up even after the initial set up although it will require lots of free space to shuffle around files (or some external storage to temporarily hold them). Basically what you do is create a new empty partition, copy all your
/home/stuff there and then configure your system to always mount that partition as the/home/directory when it boots. Files are just files after all and the operating system doesn’t really care where they come from as long as the content is correct. Once you got it working you can delete the originals and free up the space to be used otherwise.
ive finally settled on arch.
What are you, some kind of Linux prodigy?
I started with an Arch-based distro and haven’t looked back (EndeavorOS. Though I guess it’s kind of like Arch easy mode). I have a family member that has been daily driving Linux for over a decade, so that was very helpful during the transition. But after a week or two, I haven’t needed his help at all.
My laptop that previously ran Windows 11 is faster than ever.
Lol i hear this alot about arch users and as a newbie i dont get it. It has been the easiest for me to understand, maybe its the documentation idk i started with endavourOS as well which is a great beginner OS for arch IMO
EndeavorOS has been a great experience for me as well. Also KDE Plasma and now Wayland.
EndeavourOS isn’t pure arch. (I don’t mean this in an elitist way. Use whatever is best for you.) Pure arch doesn’t come with a desktop, so it sucks for new users.
I would agree but most people dont even know that a DE is different then an OS. I do plain arch now i was just saying it was a good starting point
That petition and a nickel is worth about 5 cents. Go get a better OS.
Which is almost anything else at this point.
