Council of Europe votes to recognize Holodomor as 'genocide' – DW – 10/13/2023
www.dw.com
Ukrainian President Volodymyr Zelenskyy welcomed the move, which he said paid tribute to victims of the Soviet-era famine. It follows a similar move by the European Union last year.
  • randomname01@feddit.nlEnglish
    2015·
    1 year ago

    Most historians don’t consider this a genocide, so this is a purely political move. If Russia hadn’t invaded Ukraine this wouldn’t have happened.

    The interesting thing is, the USSR did commit a genocide in Ukraine, the deportation of the Crimean Tatars, but this one isn’t recognised because it’s less known and therefore less politically expedient.

    It’s legitimately scary to see how many governments disregard historical analysis to score some cheap “dunking on Russia” points, thereby hollowing out the actual definition of what a genocide is. Like, there are a thousand legitimate ways to condemn Russia, including an actual genocide, so why do this? It’s baffling and frustrating.

    • FluffyPotato@lemm.eeEnglish
      151·
      1 year ago

      Russia has ethnically cleansed like most ethnicities that weren’t Russian. It’s not exactly a leap to say that they saw a famine happening and made it way worse for an easy ethnic cleansing.

      It’s true that there is no way to prove what their intentions were, especially since the record keeping of the USSR is basically non-existent, but it seems reasonable that their intent was another ethnic cleansing. From what I have seen from historians the only issue has been that there is no way to prove intent.

      • randomname01@feddit.nlEnglish
        5·
        1 year ago

        I’m not saying it’s a leap - I’m saying that it’s not proven, which would have to be the case for it to be qualified as a genocide.

    • xmunk@sh.itjust.worksEnglish
      12·
      1 year ago

      The Khazakhs and Tartars both were genocided out of southern Russia - once by the Tzar and then the USSR. Russia has a looong history of ethnic cleansing.

    • PugJesus@kbin.social
      154·
      1 year ago

      Most historians don’t consider this a genocide,

      Beg pardon? That the Holodomor was a genocide is a widely, though not universally, accepted view amongst historians.

    • SeaJ@lemm.eeEnglish
      102·
      1 year ago

      They were both genocides and should both be recognized as such.

    • Gigan@lemmy.worldEnglish
      93·
      1 year ago

      So 100,000 Tatars being killed is a genocide but 10,000,000 Ukrainians isn’t?

      • wwaxen@lemmy.worldEnglish
        9·
        1 year ago

        The debate is on intent. If the cause was incompetence and bad policy, then it’s not genocide. It is, however, criminal incompetence.

        Also, unrelated to the argument, modern figures have it as fewer than 5 million deaths.