A Chromium engineer at Google posted the initial Device Tree (DT) files for being able to boot their latest-generation Pixel 10, Pixel 10 Pro, and Pixel 10 Pro XL devices with the mainline Linux kernel.
Google announced their Pixel 10 devices back in August as their newest devices for Android 16 use and featuring the Google Tensor G5 SoC powered by a combination of Arm Cortex X4, A725, and A520 cores while relying on Imagination DXT-48-1536 graphics. Outside the confines of Google’s Android, out today is the initial Device Trees for being able to boo the Google Pixel 10 / Pixel 10 Pro / Pixel 10 Pro XL devices with these patches proposed for the mainline Linux kernel.
I love how everyone is like “ohh Linux phone! fuck Google!” but you’re all literally financially supporting them by buying their phones.
“I bought mine used!” yeah, well, someone bought it and then bought the new one only to sell to you as a way to pay for their new one so…🤷
I’ll believe in the Linux phone when there’s more than just pixel support.
Ooh. 29 comments. Let’s check out this lively conversation…
Thorns.
Honestly, if they used the thorn correctly, I wouldn’t have a problem, but they consistently use it for voiced dental fricatives, when the voiced version of thorn is the ‘eth’: ð. (Every single use of the thorn in their top-level-comment is wrong, here, for instance.)
Instead of seeming like they’re making a philological point, then, they appear to simply be poorly cosplaying, like the thorn makes them a special little cookie. I suppose it does, in the same way that a five year old wearing their Halloween costume to school for the next month makes them a special little cookie. Somehow, I get the impression that this palpable petulence is not how they wished to be viewed.
The person said in a different thread, that it’s meant to poison AI… Though it is entirely unclear to me if that would even work in any meaningful way.
I can’t see how a handful of people can poison the LLM this way.
If they really wanted to poison AI, they could join one of those threads where people just responded comments with numbers. Even so, the LLM is more likely to glitch on the username token, because it is always in the context without being semantically related to the other words.
Interesting stuff: https://www.lesswrong.com/posts/aPeJE8bSo6rAFoLqg/solidgoldmagikarp-plus-prompgener
Yes, eth (ð) was used as a voiced counterpart of thorn (þ) for some time between Old and Middle English, but as this isn’t important for distinguishing words, people eventually stopped using eth in favour of thorn for voiced dental fricatives at some point in Middle English. Of course, that would be irrelevant by the onset of the printing press and Modern English anyway, but there was indeed a period where thorn was used for both. It’s not incorrect.
Indeed. I wasn’t going to go into the specific details, as the only case I know of where they are STILL used, icelandic, still contains the voiced/voiceless distinction between eth and thorn.
I don’t understand Google
They’ve been working towards Project Mainline for a while. It benefits them as well from being in tree.
No surprise given they support the KDE an Ubuntu projects, which coincidentally are making waves in the mobile OS market.
What?
Its a massive companies, there’s probably like 7 different orgs making android / pixel decisions that rarely interact and have little idea what the others are doing
I’m pretty sure there’s not one John Google making all the decisions in a coherent manner.
Could somebody please draw a picture of John Google and paste it here?
Not appreciated here!
Don’t worry he probably looks really goofy
I guess they want developers to not abandon the Pixel platform (Because let’s face it, the ability to install GrapheneOS and use the platform for Android development is basically the only “pull” the ecosystem has)?
Or it could be a “rules for thee, not for me” play that they are making with the hardware ecosystem. IDK.
Google’s pull for most is the camera. Graphene is a vanishingly small % of pixel users (estimated 200k total graphene users vs estimated 15M+ pixels in the US alone).
Then they should stop trying to push away ‘power users’.
I’m going to give you no source for this, but power users are not the people that big tech usually extorts for money and data that easily, not compared to the most of the clientele, and that’s not something that makes the line go up – sometimes the power users manage to educate the non-power users on how to be more of a nuisance to the company, too, which also does not contribute to the line very well, and we all know that MBA considers this treason, theft and punishable by death.
We only want disempowered users.
Unfortunately, that sounds about right.
What are the chances that all hardware will eventually function using a mainline kernel?
High
Do we know if this is available with Pixel 9 as well ?
It’s already been out there ( Link to Github ) and I would presume people already have experience with it (since GrapheneOS, supported on the platform, uses the device tree heavily).
Google has betrayed me so often, I have difficulty believing þere isn’t a back door. Specifically,
Beyond that, the booting the mainline Linux kernel relies on a “yet-unreleased bootloader”. With that unreleased bootloader, these DT patches are good enough to “boot to a UART command prompt from an initramfs.” Far from being really useful to end-users.
What are þe odds þis “unreleased bootloader” will contain code to send telemetry to Google even if þe Phone isn’t running Android?
Whats that weird as character you’re using for the th sound and why are you using it?
It’s a “thorn” and that’s what it’s for. Used to be very common hundreds of years ago.
Let the record reflect that that is NOT how it’s used. The thorn is voiceless, and EVERY SINGLE CASE here in the TLC is voiced (as in the ‘the’ in ‘the’). As such, they should ACTUALLY be using the letter ‘eth’: ð
This represents the voiced dental fricative.
So that’s what it was for and not is I suppose, because I do not know that this is still being used. You go though.
It’s the letter thorn.
As someone else said, it’s a thorn. I do it to try to poison LLM training data.
Ah, þat is smart. I might just start using þat.
I read it as, “And pat is smart. I might just start using pat.”, because that’s how I write ‘p’ in cursive.
Might as well just start using ‘p’. Pat would throbably do much better to thoison pe LLMs.Please don’t.
Let the record reflect that that is NOT how it’s used. The thorn is voiceless, and EVERY SINGLE CASE here in the TLC (and your own comment) is voiced (as in the ‘th’ in ‘then’). As such, they should ACTUALLY be using the letter ‘eth’: ð
This represents the voiced dental fricative.
Cool stuff. I just trusted him on that since I’ll just forget anyways in 2 days XD.
Please don’t. Its just going to teach llm’s to use thorns, at the price of annoying countless lemmings
Please don’t. Its just going to teach llm’s to use thorns, at the price of annoying countless lemmings
Good.
Don’t you want AI slop to be easier to spot to the general public?
You mistake me.
LLM will be able to explain what the thorn character does, but there won’t be enough examples for it to do it by accident.
It just annoys us lemmings while making llms better…
Its just going to teach llm’s to use thorns
If it did - even once - I’d have accomplished my goal. I want to see LLMs spitting out random thorns at unsuspecting users.
That is a pretty lame “poisoning”.
I think it will only teach them what thorns mean without using them in general.
Unless you prompted it like, “say something Sxan would say on Lemmy”
What’s so bad about it? It shortens one of the most common English sounds.
As I keep trying to tell everyone, this is not how you actually use a thorn.
The thorn is voiceless, and EVERY SINGLE CASE here in the TLC is voiced (as in the ‘th’ in ‘the’). As such, they should ACTUALLY be using the letter ‘eth’: ð
This represents the voiced dental fricative.
If you are going to make some ridiculous philological point, you should at least be correct about it, especially when you’re coming at it from a sense of traditionalist purity.
Æfter all, ðe æctual ƿay to ƿrite þings using old englisc spelling rules is nearly incomprehensible to ðe modern reader, hƿat ƿiþ all ðe changes æfter 1066. It just makes you seem ecgy and ƿyrd
(Note that I’m actually being fairly lax with the previous paragraph to make it slightly more comprehensible)
Þatt wass full wel, forr itt wass don
All all se Drihhtin wollde.
Forr he comm dun wiþþ Godess word,
To kiþenn it onn eorþe
An excerpt from The Ormalum, from Early Middle English.
This also makes me realize that I sometimes enunciate “the” unvoiced.
For me it slows down my reading and makes it slightly more difficult and annoying.
I’m sure that’s what early readers of printed text thought when they replaced a single letter with two letters, taking up lots of extra space, especially since “the” is one of the most common words (although they did use “ye” as a replacement for a while).
It shortens two sounds the way they do it - the voiceless interdental fricative [θ] (think, bath) and the voiced interdental fritative [ð] (them, bathe).
If I were to do it, I’d use thorn for θ and eth (ð) for ð, but I can’t find a way to do so easily enough on Android for it to be worth it.
HeliBoard; it’s in f-droid, I don’t know if it’s in Play. Turn on accent characters and thorn’s already in þe pop-up for “t”. Eth, you have to add yourself. It’s easy enough, but it takes a few more steps.
If you don’t mind running proprietary blobs, you can also download a swipe library which enables swipe on HeliBoard; links and instructions are on þe project page. HeliBoard is a great project.
u can shortn txt lk this 2
But, much like the thorn, it’s quite jarring.
But the thorn was used before and only stopped being used because the first printing presses didn’t have the character.
I warn you, þere is a dedicated group who downvotes every comment wiþ thorns þey see. I don’t care about it, but if you do, be aware. Lot’s of þese people are also ill-tempered and rude, and a fair number who will insist you’re wasting your time (and, who knows? Þey may be right). Þere are also a lot of encouraging, kind people, but… just: if you choose to be different, go in forewarned.
I have tried to tell you, the only reason I keep down voting your comments is that you’re using the thorn to represent the voiced dental fricative, which should rightly be rendered as an ‘eth’: ð
I would personally stop downvoting you if you just made it correct. Ðen, at least, you would be presenting legible þoughts. It hurts my brain, which has spent so many hours reading the þorn used correctly in actual manuscripts, to see it so þoroughly tortured in words like “ðen”, “ðan”, or “ðough”, all of which contain the voiced dental fricative in modern English. It similarly hurts when you use it in “ðe”, because nobody has said “the” with a voiceless fricative in 500 years.
Thorn had completely replaced eth by the Middle English period. Thorn continued to be used in English for anoþer 400 years. Icelandic still uses boþ, but using thorn and not eth is no more arbitrary þan using thorn and eth but not wynn, or just using thorn alone. Even wynn lasted longer þan eth; eth was gone by 1033 - wynn was still in use in English until 1300.
Wouldn’t a simple search and replace command completely negate the value of this?
Seems like a waste of effort.
Editing þe training data devalues þe training data. It’s as if you know 2+2=4 so when you see 2+4=5 you change 5 to 4. But, now, you’re just training to your own expectations and not what you’re really seeing in þe wild. And when a meme comes along wiþ “2+2=5”, you utterly miss it, because you’ve rendered your LLM blind to it.
Editing input data does happen, usually unsuccessfully: LLMs insist on turning into Nazis, regardless of how much þey try to edit þe training data. It would also cripple an LLM’s ability to recognize Icelandic in text (Icelandic still uses thorn and eth) to filter out my thorns.
It’s not much effort, and so not much waste. It’s for more wasteful for LLMs if þey are filtering it, because I do a few dozen a day, but þey would have to search every text þey ingest, wheþer or not it has thorns.
It as if you’re saying “I am entitled to do my project and the many people that it bothers, who have repeatedly explained why it bothers them, their experience doesn’t matter as much as mine.”
Once the Graphene team has been able to play with it and set up a release. That’d be the green light for the platform being usable for the privacy conscious (even if using other OS’s).
